Evoforce
Posts: 639
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: Easy Climate Control Fan-Only Solution - 5 cents, 5 mins

Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:20 pm

It looks like a good fix!
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

TimLee
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 17 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2026
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: Easy Climate Control Fan-Only Solution - 5 cents, 5 mins

Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:08 am

Evoforce wrote:It looks like a good fix!

I think Torc is still waiting for the first deliveries from the company fabricating the kit.

If well done by the subcontractor fabricating the kit at something in the $15 to $20 US including shipping from Norway it is a great bargain :!:

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1631
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Easy Climate Control Fan-Only Solution - 5 cents, 5 mins

Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:40 am

wwhitney wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:This thread harkens back to the 2011/2012 Leafs, which had no "heater off" button. With our cars, you cannot run the fan only if the outside temperature is below 60F, regardless of the mode setting.

To double check, that should be cabin temperature of below 60F, right? Because 60F is the lowest you can set the target cabin temperature to?

Cheers, Wayne


Well, yes the lowest cabin temperature you can set is 60F. But if you do so, and the outside temperature is above 60F, the heater will not run. If it is below 60F outside, the heater will run to heat up the fluid. So I really did mean outside temperature.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

wwhitney
Posts: 663
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 01 Apr 2011
Location: Berkeley, CA

Re: Easy Climate Control Fan-Only Solution - 5 cents, 5 mins

Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:27 am

GetOffYourGas wrote:Well, yes the lowest cabin temperature you can set is 60F. But if you do so, and the outside temperature is above 60F, the heater will not run. If it is below 60F outside, the heater will run to heat up the fluid. So I really did mean outside temperature.

I'm confused. Are you saying that if it the cabin interior temperature is 65F, and the exterior temperature is 55F, and I set the HVAC system to 60F, it will run the heater? If so that's a crazy design.

Cheers, Wayne

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1631
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Easy Climate Control Fan-Only Solution - 5 cents, 5 mins

Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:08 am

wwhitney wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:Well, yes the lowest cabin temperature you can set is 60F. But if you do so, and the outside temperature is above 60F, the heater will not run. If it is below 60F outside, the heater will run to heat up the fluid. So I really did mean outside temperature.

I'm confused. Are you saying that if it the cabin interior temperature is 65F, and the exterior temperature is 55F, and I set the HVAC system to 60F, it will run the heater? If so that's a crazy design.

Cheers, Wayne


If the fluid temperature is the same as the outside temperature, then yes. Unless you have preheated the car, the fluid will be the outside temperature.

An example of when your scenario might play out would be a car that has been parked in the sun on a 55 degree day. The sun could heat the cabin to 65, while the fluid would still be at 55. If you turn on the fan and set the temp to 60, it will run the heater. I have observed this in my car. And yes, it's a crazy design. Of course in this case, the heater wouldn't have to work very hard, so it wouldn't draw the full 6kW - at least not for long.

My gut tells me that the design of the 2011 / 2012 Leafs was done by a team used to ICEV. With an ICE on board, heat is basically "free", since it is a waste product of combustion. In fact, you get more heat out of an ICE than mechanical energy, as all ICEs are less than 50% efficient.

I'm also under the impression that the engineers were working on a better solution, but Nissan rushed the Leaf to market in order to compete with the Volt. That's why the 2013+ models have things like a heat pump and an integrated charger (rather than an external one, bolted into the trunk). The car seems like it was 90% done, but they had to grab some off-the-shelf parts to throw into the 2011 / 2012 in order to deliver the first one in 2010.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

Ninjarider1978
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:01 am
Delivery Date: 23 Sep 2015

Re: Easy Climate Control Fan-Only Solution - 5 cents, 5 mins

Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:35 am

QueenBee wrote:
Ninjarider1978 wrote:Hey everyone, am I wrong to believe this thread is about running the fan only in defrost mode while the car is running? If that is the case then I can say that my 2015 S model will do that with no modifications. Simply have the climate control off, then adjust fan speed with the dial. This puts the fan on without AC or heater. Then press the mode button a few times until the defrost indicator is lit. It is lit at the same time as the vent for the feet. Forgive me if I am misunderstanding what this thread is about. Good night!


Have you done this test after leaving you LEAF outside in the freezing cold? In our 2011s turning on the fan even with the AC off will cause there to be energy used by the heater when it's cold out.


Ok good to know, sorry for you guys with the 2011/12 models.

So I gave it a try with it being 43 F (7 C) outside according to leafspy. Initially the car was maybe a few degrees C warmer in the car. I ran it in fan only mode on defrost, leafspy said it was only drawing 400W from the battery and 0W from both the heater and AC. I then tried heating the cabin up to a comfortable 20C (sorry I work in metric) then ran the same experiment, and got the same results. So I guess the issue is non existent in the 2015, thankfully cause up here in the NW we get a lot of fog on the windshield this time of year and it's very hard to drive for any length of time without the window fogging up. A few times I have had to make a lengthy trip and juggle distance with safety.

Hope to be more involved in these forums and I love my leaf!

QueenBee
Posts: 1564
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:14 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 2062
Location: Bellevue (Seattle), WA

Re: Easy Climate Control Fan-Only Solution - 5 cents, 5 mins

Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:00 am

Ninjarider1978 wrote:
QueenBee wrote:
Ninjarider1978 wrote:Hey everyone, am I wrong to believe this thread is about running the fan only in defrost mode while the car is running? If that is the case then I can say that my 2015 S model will do that with no modifications. Simply have the climate control off, then adjust fan speed with the dial. This puts the fan on without AC or heater. Then press the mode button a few times until the defrost indicator is lit. It is lit at the same time as the vent for the feet. Forgive me if I am misunderstanding what this thread is about. Good night!


Have you done this test after leaving you LEAF outside in the freezing cold? In our 2011s turning on the fan even with the AC off will cause there to be energy used by the heater when it's cold out.


Ok good to know, sorry for you guys with the 2011/12 models.

So I gave it a try with it being 43 F (7 C) outside according to leafspy. Initially the car was maybe a few degrees C warmer in the car. I ran it in fan only mode on defrost, leafspy said it was only drawing 400W from the battery and 0W from both the heater and AC. I then tried heating the cabin up to a comfortable 20C (sorry I work in metric) then ran the same experiment, and got the same results. So I guess the issue is non existent in the 2015, thankfully cause up here in the NW we get a lot of fog on the windshield this time of year and it's very hard to drive for any length of time without the window fogging up. A few times I have had to make a lengthy trip and juggle distance with safety.

Hope to be more involved in these forums and I love my leaf!


Thanks for testing, that sounds exactly the test I was thinking. In a 2011/12 this would have caused the heat to come up. Glad you love your LEAF and happy to see more who do!

So now what I'm wondering is when exactly would your car call for heat? From what I understand of your scenario the inside of the car was much colder than the your setpoint. If you turned the AC back on maybe that would cause the heater to turn on as well? Maybe turning the temperature up one degree would all of a sudden cause it to warm up to that temp?

FWIW I've actually seen the heat come on while using the A/C on a mild day, presumably the fluid temperature got below whatever its desired setpoint was (60?) and needed to be warmed up.

TimLee
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 17 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2026
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: Easy Climate Control Fan-Only Solution - 5 cents, 5 mins

Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:39 am

QueenBee wrote:... FWIW I've actually seen the heat come on while using the A/C on a mild day, presumably the fluid temperature got below whatever its desired setpoint was (60?) and needed to be warmed up.

I have observed that on my 2011 also.
On moderate spring and fall days the only way to avoid range reduction is to ventilate by opening windows.
Aggravating in such a wonderful quiet car.

I hope Torc's cable kit is a great fix.

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

QueenBee
Posts: 1564
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:14 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 2062
Location: Bellevue (Seattle), WA

Re: Easy Climate Control Fan-Only Solution - 5 cents, 5 mins

Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:58 pm

TimLee wrote:
QueenBee wrote:... FWIW I've actually seen the heat come on while using the A/C on a mild day, presumably the fluid temperature got below whatever its desired setpoint was (60?) and needed to be warmed up.

I have observed that on my 2011 also.
On moderate spring and fall days the only way to avoid range reduction is to ventilate by opening windows.
Aggravating in such a wonderful quiet car.

I hope Torc's cable kit is a great fix.


I'm confident that their fix will address this issue, hopefully we get some communication from them about how things are progressing.

What's kinda wild to start thinking about is how much energy is wasted and additional wear on the battery from what is clearly a completely absurd lack of feature. Just like the driver can turn AC off and the AC will only be able to run when the driver is aware that it can. The heat is the exact same. Fortunately the models with a heat pump have this feature and sounds like S models behave a bit better but but don't have that feature like that.

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 1417
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Easy Climate Control Fan-Only Solution - 5 cents, 5 mins

Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:40 pm

The heater drawing power while running the A/C and the inability to have forced ventilation without heater draw is why I pulled the sensor plug off the fluid line and put a resistor in the connector on my 2011 once the battery was deteriorated enough to cause some range concerns. I had actually purchased a switch and a couple different resistors to make a permanent modification (similar to the kit, but would have had to splice wires) a few days before the 2011 met its demise. The kit with plug and play connectors looks like a great deal and I would have already ordered one if I still had the 2011.

There are some things on the 2011 that I miss (electric parking and higher motor torque are two of them), but it is nice to be able to take control of the HVAC with buttons on the dash.

Gerry
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

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