LeftieBiker
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:59 pm

How is this post at all helpful in this thread...when you don't even have data to back it up...after @GerryAZ gave such a thoughtful answer to the previous question??


I've been involved with electric bicycles and scooters since 2001. I've seen many reports of pack failures, and had packs fail myself. SLA batteries more often get killed by charger failures (runaway charging), lithium packs get killed by BMS failure, NiMH packs succumb to heat, usually from badly programmed BMS units. Try sites like VisForVoltage, EndlessSphere, etc, for confirmation.


Why do you have to comment on EVERY topic in EVERY thread!!


There are threads here in which I've never commented, and others in which I rarely comment. This topic is directly relevant to my own Leaf experience: I had a nearly dead 12 volt battery when my car was one year old (power locks didn't work, emergency start procedure worked), and have been using a maintainer ever since. I still have the same battery, after 4.5 years, that was nearly dead after one year. I'm guessing that it just seems to you that I comment on everything, so I suggest you filter me (select "add FOE" in the user controls) since you have no interest in what I have to say.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

VitaminJ
Posts: 396
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:46 am
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Leaf Number: 415775
Location: Morrison, CO
Contact: YouTube

Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:17 pm

Just a reminder that this guy puts a trickle charger on his daily driver :lol: Yes, I'm gonna listen to him for the best advice on my car :roll:

LeftieBiker wrote: This topic is directly relevant to my own Leaf experience: I had a nearly dead 12 volt battery when my car was one year old (power locks didn't work, emergency start procedure worked), and have been using a maintainer ever since.
2013 Ocean Blue SV w/ QC and LED
- +0.2 mi/kwh Aeromods
- 2lb 5Ah LiFe 12v battery

ebeighe
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:56 pm
Delivery Date: 27 Jul 2017
Leaf Number: 308422
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:53 am

Is there perhaps some significant differences between the model years in the way various Leafs maintain the 12V battery?

by the way, i think i learned from this thread the Leaf's load on the12V battery when everything is off ("dark load") is ~ 20mA, right? (i assume through measurement?)
That would work out to about 1/2 Amps / day

A source of potentially unpredictable loads can be the telematics (which I don't have in my model).
Doesn't the leaf's computer periodically wake up and do stuff, even when off?

what does leaving doors open do? i mean, i'm thinking i remember that after a few minutes of leaving hatch open the light went out(?). does leaving a door open keep the computer active indefinitely, i wonder?
"Brilliant Silver" 2017 S built 04/17, delivered 7/27/2017

LeftieBiker
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
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Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:50 am

The 2013 model year is the worst for battery issues, and they seem to have resolved them for the 2014 or 2015 year. Leaving a door open likely does keep parts of the car "awake."
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

dmbshn41
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:16 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Oct 2017
Leaf Number: 420989

Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:47 am

I recently experienced a 12v lead battery failure in my used Leaf. I can't speak for what it went thru the first 20k of its life, but the first 1000 miles I had it, I did nothing out of the ordinary. Never left lights on, doors open, etc. After reading this post and several others, and I am by no means a battery expert, but I replace a lot of lithium battery packs on industrial robots on a time basis rather than to failure. The packs generally measure the same voltage when I replace them, but they get so little draw and so little usage. That would be the extent of my lithium battery experience. Here's what I came up with.

Replacing with a 12V lead acid replacement: Plan for battery to last around 3-4 years depending on climate and use. Cheapest option. Potential to use a maintainer occasionally, something additional to remember to do.

Replacing with a yellow top Optima: Plan for battery to last in the range of 5-7 years depending on climate and use. A little pricier. Don't see the need to use a maintainer as the deep cycle is more in line with what would work for a Leaf currently.

Replacing with a proper lithium battery like what the OP did: Plan for battery to last in the 8+ years depending on climate and use. Much pricier. I wouldn't mess with a maintainer on this. My only concern to this would be temperature as i live in southern Ohio, and winters can be cold. I know lithium chemistry can be different and can handle a variety of ranges of temperature.

I just don't think that lithium batteries being used as a 12V has hit a level of reliability in masses to be used in every day vehicles. Yes, the OP has one that has lasted him 4+ years with no issues, but the cost is where I see this as a killer for many. I'm not aware of anyone mass producing these batteries in a 12V format that can be used reliably in BEV or hybrid vehicles. I think the best option for many is the yellow top Optima. Simple, proven. I could be wrong.

LeftieBiker
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Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:00 pm

I think that using any deep(er) cycle SLA or AGM battery is the way to go. And while I wouldn't use a maintainer often, I would do it occasionally, at least until it was shown by the rest voltage to be unnecessary.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Joetheleafowner
Posts: 2
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Leaf Number: 403939

Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:16 pm

Has anybody tried wiring up 2 lithium motorcycle batteries? Double the amp hours.

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TomT
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:21 am

My stock battery was still doing fine when I returned the car after 5 years... No ROI in an expensive battery imho.

EVDRIVER wrote:My factory battery in my LEAF is fine after 2 years.
59,991 miles/12 bars/289 Gids/68.54 AHr/101% SOH/101.64% Hx 7May15 w/ new Lizard (barely made the warranty).
71,770 miles/12 bars/256 Gids/59.04 AHr/88% SOH/87.92% Hx 3Mar16 at lease return.

Now driving a 2016 Volt Premier.

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keydiver
Posts: 1080
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Leaf Number: 16484
Location: Hobe Sound, Florida
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:16 am

I cannot believe that I still have my original 2012 battery (delivered 12/08/2011) after 6+ years! :shock: I have even killed it a few times, by not leaving it on a trickle charge while we were on vacation, and it still keeps coming back. The Florida heat is supposed to be hard on batteries, but this one likes it here. :D Maybe its all the sunshine that hits the solar panel of my SL, helping trickle charge it all the time?
2012 Glacier Pearl SL - Delivered December 8, 2011
10kW Solar PV for recharging!
2006 Prius with Hymotion 5kWh PHEV upgrade
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VitaminJ
Posts: 396
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:46 am
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Leaf Number: 415775
Location: Morrison, CO
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:27 pm

keydiver wrote:I cannot believe that I still have my original 2012 battery (delivered 12/08/2011) after 6+ years! :shock: I have even killed it a few times, by not leaving it on a trickle charge while we were on vacation, and it still keeps coming back. The Florida heat is supposed to be hard on batteries, but this one likes it here. :D Maybe its all the sunshine that hits the solar panel of my SL, helping trickle charge it all the time?

You are confused. The car has two batteries. Heat kills the big battery and cold kills the small battery. Look at the people posting problems with their 12v battery, all northern latitudes and this problem gains popularity in winter time. The solar panel only charges the 12v small battery has nothing to do with your big battery.
2013 Ocean Blue SV w/ QC and LED
- +0.2 mi/kwh Aeromods
- 2lb 5Ah LiFe 12v battery

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