MalcolmReynolds
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:39 pm

GerryAZ wrote:That Battery Tender brand motorcycle battery has only 96 watt hours (8 ampere hours at 12 volts) of energy storage. I doubt that is sufficient to reliably handle residual load of the Leaf when parked.


The battery tender one is a 26-35ah battery or so it claims on the specs. There are at least 3 sizes smaller, but this is the largest capacity one that they have. Looking at what others were saying about at least 20ah I thought this one might work.

If anyone knows other LifeP04 options do not cost an arm and a leg please share. I think it makes a lot of sense to have a lithium battery for this purpose.
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"Serenity" 2013 SL 12 bars 39k+ miles and counting
Zencar 32a EVSE

MalcolmReynolds
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:45 pm

I was just digging through some of the comments on that Battery Tender LifeP04 and someone stated it's real capacity is only about 10ah. So that wouldn't be thing. So I will keep looking.
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"Serenity" 2013 SL 12 bars 39k+ miles and counting
Zencar 32a EVSE

GerryAZ
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:08 pm

The battery that Stanton bought (link in original post) is a high quality battery with energy storage equal to or better than the original lead acid. The little motorcycle style batteries being discussed lately are no where near the same capacity as the original lead acid. They will probably work fine if the car is driven every day, but could be an issue if the car is parked for extended time. FWIW, the battery store where I buy my batteries no longer sells the motorcycle style lithium batteries because they had too many problems with them. I was planning to buy one for a motorcycle that has an alarm system which discharges the battery when parked. After prematurely replacing a couple of batteries due to failure from sitting discharged, I intended to buy a lithium until I learned that they no longer sell them. Also, the manufacturers of the small lithium batteries like to express capacity in terms of watt hours instead of the more familiar ampere hour rating for 12-volt batteries because it makes them sound more powerfull. 96 watt hours sounds a lot more powerful than 8 ampere hours when comparing them to conventional or AGM batteries that have capacities of 12 to 20 ampere hours.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

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Stanton
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:36 am

^ ^ ^ THIS (mostly)

The original (stock) lead-acid battery for the Leaf is ~40 AHrs; the Lithium battery I bought (and still have) is ~20 Ahrs.
I had a smaller capacity (~10 Ahr) battery in there on a very temporary basis, and while it did "work", I wouldn't recommend it long-term (there were also some mechanical issues).
The saying "you get what you pay for" is no different with LiFePO4 batteries; the cheap ones typically don't have any sort BMS (built-in) which may lead to failures. Especially with the Leaf, it's nice not having to worry what charge level the 12v battery is at, because they can operate continuously at capacity levels a lead-acid would basically be worthless.
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maini
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:12 pm

2014 SV Cayenne Red with LED and QC port

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Stanton
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:50 pm

maini wrote:looks like a good one for the price
https://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/ ... 0q-fp.html


Yes it does. Mentions "internal cell balance" and the Leaf will never exceed the 15v rated max charging voltage.
They only mentioned 530 CCA in the spec (not too bad); is there a way to convert CCA -> AHr?
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
12v LiFePO4 battery & FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers (front)
Tor's low-power heater mod
2013 sun visor
3G modem upgrade
L2 EVSE Upgrade
Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

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Nubo
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:13 pm

MalcolmReynolds wrote:The battery tender one is a 26-35ah battery or so it claims on the specs. There are at least 3 sizes smaller, but this is the largest capacity one that they have. Looking at what others were saying about at least 20ah I thought this one might work.


Be careful when determining specs of these 12V automotive Lithium replacements. The sellers like to invoke "amp-hour equivalency" for actual amp-hour measurements. The following quote from Thomas Edison still holds true:

Thomas Edison wrote: The storage battery is one of those peculiar things which appeals to the imagination, and no more perfect thing could be desired by stock swindlers than that very self-same thing. Just as soon as a man gets working on the secondary battery it brings out his latent capacity for lying.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

GerryAZ
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:52 am

Stanton wrote:
maini wrote:looks like a good one for the price
https://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/ ... 0q-fp.html


Yes it does. Mentions "internal cell balance" and the Leaf will never exceed the 15v rated max charging voltage.
They only mentioned 530 CCA in the spec (not too bad); is there a way to convert CCA -> AHr?


It looks like a great motorcycle starting battery and I am considering one for one of my motorcycles. The reason these suppliers do not publish the AHr ratings is because they are much lower than the lead acid originals they are intended to replace. The AHr rating does not matter for starting, but it makes a big difference if there is residual load while parked (such as the power off draw of the Leaf). Lithium batteries have low internal resistance so small lightweight batteries can deliver high starting current while maintaining higher terminal voltage than lead acid batteries they replace. This gives them high CCA ratings compared to conventional batteries even though they have much less energy storage (lower actual AHr ratings).

CCA is based upon 30 seconds of cranking so 530 amperes for 30 seconds would be about the same energy as 8.5 amperes for 1 hour (assuming nominal voltage). This is not a valid calculation to determine actual AHr rating, but is probably a reasonable estimate to compare lithium batteries without published AHr numbers.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

mnl
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:00 pm

has anyone tried Ballistic Performance batteries?
https://www.ballistic-batteries.com/cat ... ?cPath=141

I had a 12-cell EVO2 a few years ago in my race car (mazda miata) which basically only got driven about once a month for race days and it worked great and saved a ton of weight.

I started thinking about eventually replacing the 12v in my Leaf with one of these and started reading a few of the threads and its a bit over my head so i was hoping to get some feedback

i have a 2011 Leaf with the solar panel on the spoiler. while i'd prefer covered parking, it's not available to me so it parks in the sun (at least i can use that panel on the spoiler). i'm in a part of Japan where the temps throughout a year might get as low as around single digit -C and up to mid-30C. i drive the car only about once a week on the weekend for groceries/errands (i commute by bike for work), typically not going more than 5-10mi each trip. i rarely use the car in ACC mode. my priorities are reliability and weight savings.

seems like the ballistic offerings and other motorcycle batteries would be appropriate for my use-case. is there anything i'm missing?

thanks!

joeriv
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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:22 am

I emailed batterystuff about the Scorpion battery and here's their response:

"Sorry, that is a powersport battery only and is only warrantied in applications we have listed. In automotive use the battery would not hold up long, as it is very low in capacity."

Using it in the Leaf would void the warranty, so you're on your own.
2017 Leaf S with QC, JUN mfg date

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