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Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:16 am
by Evoforce
It is a good battery. I run that in my EV.

Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:27 pm
by RichCapeCod
Very interesting and informative thread. Read the whole dang thing!!

Most of my batteries last between four and six years (all in ICE vehicles). I had one anomoly, a Mazda Miata in which I replaced my AGM battery after NINE YEARS!! And it was still working but I figured, nah, it’s gotta die any day now. The battery used in the Miata was the very same size battery which was used in my BMW R1100R motorcycle.

Not sure if this is the exact battery mentioned in this thread for $150 dollars. Found it on Amazon for $115:
Shorai LifeP04, Power Sports Battery / 12V 10-14(Ah) 240 Cold Cranking Amps (CCA):

https://www.amazon.com/LiFePO4-12V-10-1 ... ts+battery

Here’s a Battery Tender model, which is larger capacity, $210 dollars:

Battery Tender BTL35A480C Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery / (12V, 26-35Ah, 480 ICA, 102.4 Watt Hrs.)

-- Caution: Quite a few reviewers report poor customer service from Battery Tender! --

https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-B ... ts+battery

Rich

PS

To drive everyone just a bit crazier, here's what popped-up on Amazon for "lithium car battery"

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i ... MK9N7AYWTS

Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:43 pm
by GerryAZ
RichCapeCod wrote:Very interesting and informative thread. Read the whole dang thing!!

Most of my batteries last between four and six years (all in ICE vehicles). I had one anomoly, a Mazda Miata in which I replaced my AGM battery after NINE YEARS!! And it was still working but I figured, nah, it’s gotta die any day now. The battery used in the Miata was the very same size battery which was used in my BMW R1100R motorcycle.

Not sure if this is the exact battery mentioned in this thread for $150 dollars. Found it on Amazon for $115:
Shorai LifeP04, Power Sports Battery / 12V 10-14(Ah) 240 Cold Cranking Amps (CCA):

https://www.amazon.com/LiFePO4-12V-10-1 ... ts+battery

Here’s a Battery Tender model, which is larger capacity, $210 dollars:

Battery Tender BTL35A480C Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery / (12V, 26-35Ah, 480 ICA, 102.4 Watt Hrs.)

-- Caution: Quite a few reviewers report poor customer service from Battery Tender! --

https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-B ... ts+battery

Rich

PS

To drive everyone just a bit crazier, here's what popped-up on Amazon for "lithium car battery"

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i ... MK9N7AYWTS


Rich,
You need to look carefully at the ratings. Those batteries are advertised as equivalent to certain AHr rating based upon CCA. In reality, they are only about 8 AHr or less actual capacity so they would likely be insufficient to power the residual loads in the LEAF while parked for a few days.

Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:58 am
by Stanton
^ ^ ^ THIS

I can promise you that any LiFePO4 12v battery for < $200 either won't work in the Leaf or is of poor quality (no BMS, etc.)

Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:38 am
by VitaminJ
I'm still rocking my Tattu LiFe 5Ah motorcycle battery for almost a full year now and 20k miles. Starts every day I've gone on vacation and left it for 10 days twice once plugged in and once not plugged in and neither time I had an issue starting up and driving to work the next morning. Was $110 on Amazon. Includes a BMS, over voltage protection, and low-voltage cutoff.

Keep spreading misinformation based on conjecture without any experience though ;)

e: Holy crap this battery is down to $89 on Amazon clearance! Wow. Of course it's under $200 so it won't work, right guys? :mrgreen:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01J9 ... UTF8&psc=1

Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:47 pm
by Nubo
VitaminJ wrote:I'm still rocking my Tattu LiFe 5Ah motorcycle battery for almost a full year now and 20k miles. Starts every day I've gone on vacation and left it for 10 days twice once plugged in and once not plugged in and neither time I had an issue starting up and driving to work the next morning. Was $110 on Amazon. Includes a BMS, over voltage protection, and low-voltage cutoff.

Keep spreading misinformation based on conjecture without any experience though ;)

e: Holy crap this battery is down to $89 on Amazon clearance! Wow. Of course it's under $200 so it won't work, right guys? :mrgreen:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01J9 ... UTF8&psc=1


You were right on the razor's edge, assuming a 20mA dark current. I'd recommend at least 20AH capacity (true capacity not "Pb equivalent") to account for higher parasitic loads, longer vacations and emergency situations.

Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:09 pm
by RichCapeCod
GerryAZ wrote:
RichCapeCod wrote:.............

Rich,
You need to look carefully at the ratings. Those batteries are advertised as equivalent to certain AHr rating based upon CCA. In reality, they are only about 8 AHr or less actual capacity so they would likely be insufficient to power the residual loads in the LEAF while parked for a few days.


Gerry, thanks for clarifying the data. For the record, in your view, is there any lithium based battery which might be of value for use in an EV?

Rich

Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:17 pm
by GerryAZ
RichCapeCod wrote:Gerry, thanks for clarifying the data. For the record, in your view, is there any lithium based battery which might be of value for use in an EV?

Rich


Rich,

The large, expensive one that Stanton has (or similar) should be good. The little powersports batteries are marginal, at best (both quality and capacity wise) so I will not consider them for the LEAF.

One of my motorcycles has a factory alarm system which has residual load like the LEAF so I have killed a few conventional and AGM batteries in it by letting the bike sit too long without either riding or charging it. I was planning to try a lithium battery after seeing them advertised at a motorcycle show, but the local battery store where I buy most of my batteries said they had so much trouble with them (various brands) that they decided not to sell them any more. I can understand why they are not reliable after studying the specifications.

Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:21 pm
by LeftieBiker
The most common failure in smaller lithium packs is the BMS. Many, many packs get killed by the very device that is supposed to protect them. The lack of a BMS is actually one of the virtues of lead batteries.

Re: Replaced 12v Lead with 12v Lithium

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:29 am
by Stanton
LeftieBiker wrote:The most common failure in smaller lithium packs is the BMS. Many, many packs get killed by the very device that is supposed to protect them. The lack of a BMS is actually one of the virtues of lead batteries.


How is this post at all helpful in this thread...when you don't even have data to back it up...after @GerryAZ gave such a thoughtful answer to the previous question??
Why do you have to comment on EVERY topic in EVERY thread!!