LeftieBiker
Posts: 7380
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Heater In a Box

Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:14 pm

If you don't need extra range then there is no reason whatsoever, that I can think of, to build one of these things! I do plan to test it this week, hopefully in my housemate's Prius PHEV, which really needs it. Our commute is too long for it to be useful, but when she runs errands locally they are always trips of only a few miles. My Leaf will be next: it looks like there may not be as much space as I'd like in front of the driver's seat, to have two heaters blowing on my legs and feet, but I'll work something out.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

LKK
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:27 am

Re: Heater In a Box

Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:55 pm

Instead of using a battery for your power source how about a small propane canister like the one used on camping stoves. Here's a link to a crazy looking propane based catalytic car heater, looks sort of jury rigged but the basic idea looks like it has merit.

http://www.atomicheater.com/

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7380
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Heater In a Box

Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:37 pm

The idea of having a propane-powered secondary heater has merit, and I've suggested it for years. A DIY propane heater setup, however, isn't, IMO, a good idea.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

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LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4348
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Boca Raton FL

Re: Heater In a Box

Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:33 pm

Volvo was toying with an alcohol heater. Seems like a good solution, what would it take, maybe a 1-2 gallon tank. Even better if it could heat the battery.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue

beachfitrob
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:00 am
Delivery Date: 02 Jan 2014
Leaf Number: 000296
Location: Houston, TX
Contact: Website

Re: Heater In a Box

Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:08 pm

I bought one of these 12V heated seat 'covers' for my 2011:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AN ... oblog02-20

Plugs into the cig lighter. I have not used it yet because its Houston and today it was 70. Warmed up again before I could use it but wife said it was warmer than just the seat alone when it was off, so should be pretty nice when actually powered up.

Under $18 and Prime eligible as of this typing.
http://astore.amazon.com/roblog02-20 <=-Check out my Nissan Leaf store. Personally tested goodies for your Leaf.
http://beachfitrob.com
http://theroblog.com
http://about.me/robertbullock

2011 SL with QC and 'Solar Package'
13700miles 2 bars lost (lost before 8100 miles)
~52.7aH, 80% SOH
Houston, TX

LeftieBiker
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Heater In a Box

Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:43 pm

I've used both the heated seat (OEM) and a heated 12V throw blanket, and while they both help, when the air in the car gets frigid, I get cold.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

Goodtohave
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:19 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2013
Location: Montreal

Re: Heater In a Box

Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:31 pm

I still think that adding any heater at the end of the day only extends range by the amount of juice you can get out of a 12volt battery.

I think you said you don't have access to 110v at your destination I wonder how much charge you could get off 2 or 3 12volt batteries in your trunk, hooked in parallel to an inverter to your factory level 1 charger. They don't give much but if you are at work for 12 hours....

If you preheat at home I can't see saving more then 5% with the added heater and I bet you could get the same amount or more back. If you are like me you have a few spare 12volt batteries lying around all winter from stored summer toys anyways (boat car etc).

I wouldn't do the added heater or what I suggested, but I think they would amount to the same and be a lot safer to just recharge a bit.

If I can make it work in Montreal weather without an added heater I would imagine anyone can.
2012 Leaf SL
Her name is Maple...she is a Canadian Leaf

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JeremyW
Posts: 1521
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Delivery Date: 23 Jun 2012
Leaf Number: 19136
Location: San Gabriel, CA

Re: Heater In a Box

Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:04 pm

Staque wrote:Having a 95Ah battery means that it is rated to provide 4.75A for 20 hours. Pulling 35A, you will get far less than 95Ah (Peukert's law). That will account for some of the shortfall.

Pay attention here LeftieBiker, an Ah in lead acid land is like a "Nissan mile" in our land. Lead acid capacity is strongly tied to how fast you are drawing it. Most deep cycle lead acids are rated on a 20 hour discharge. You will see quite a bit of reduction in a high load application such as yours; cutting the capacity in half like the example above may be what you see in practice too.
Former 2012 SL leasee 6/23/12 - 9/23/15
Now driving Honda Fit EV, License plate: CHADEMO
2000 Honda Insight for long trips

LeftieBiker
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Heater In a Box

Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:52 pm

I'm sure that will have some effect, but I don't think it will be nearly as dramatic as a 95AH battery shutting down an inverter in less than ten minutes. In fact...

I did the final "bench test" of the components of the prototype system this evening. The 800 watt inverter, which I hadn't tested with the heaters before, performed fine, powering both heaters smoothly and easily for close to ten minutes. The battery, however, isn't really up to more than testing, as I suspected. It's a roughly ten year old (I get some amazing lifetimes from lead-acid batteries!) 31AH deep cycle Dell battery, IIRC. I figure it has about 10-15AH of capacity left, now, so when the inverter started to complain (while still powering the heaters) after 8 minutes, I shut it all down. The battery read 12.14 volts immediately afterwards, but recovered on its own to 12.35 volts, which translates to about 45% capacity left. There was obviously some voltage "sag" but it wasn't excessive.

Conclusion, so far: the battery/inverter/ 200 watt x 2 heater setup seems sound. Based on extrapolation only, it looks like a 30AH deep cycle battery (easier to carry) should provide half an hour's heat with this version. A 60AH marine type battery should provide about 50 minutes' worth of heat. Both estimates are based on no more than 50% (marine) and 70% (deep cycle) discharge. I still think it's worth trying a "Greensaver" battery, because of its supposed lack of sulfation when sitting partially discharged (like while the car is at work) and its (also alleged) low internal resistance, which would allow it to provide more amperage with less loss and less heat inside the battery case.

The final test is, of course, with the heater "installed" inside a car. I may try the Prius PHEV first, because of space issues and the greater interest from the PIP folks, or I may use the Leaf if my housemate objects. In either case I should know how viable this idea is within a week or so.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

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LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4348
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Boca Raton FL

Re: Heater In a Box

Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:40 am

http://www.contoure.com/Products/pc/vie ... product=14

How about something like that?

Image

Question is where would you put it in a car? Maybe some little shelf over the console. Still you worry about burning up the car.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue

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