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TomT
Posts: 10540
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: Foothills of Granada Hills, CA
Contact: Website

Re: Heater In a Box

Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:45 am

I would be far more worried about Carbon Monoxide poisoning!

LTLFTcomposite wrote:Question is where would you put it in a car? Maybe some little shelf over the console. Still you worry about burning up the car.
59,991 miles/12 bars/289 Gids/68.54 AHr/101% SOH/101.64% Hx 7May15 w/ new Lizard (barely made the warranty).
71,770 miles/12 bars/256 Gids/59.04 AHr/88% SOH/87.92% Hx 3Mar16 at lease return.

Now driving a 2016 Volt Premier. Model 3 reserved.

edatoakrun
Posts: 4432
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Heater In a Box

Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:46 am

There are many old threads on the subject of additional heating.

IMO, the safe and cost-effective method to add a lot of BTUs still would be to install a propane water heater outside of the cab, with a heat exchanger loop to warm the heatant tank, allowing the stock heating system to operate normally, but allowing use of either the battery pack or propane for heating as desired.

There are numerous off-the-shelf RV and portable water heaters available, such as the one below for ~$120.

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/it ... odel/57523

Add any size propane tank you like, a 12 volt recirculating pump, and a heat exchanger to the stock heatant system, and you're in business.

The hardest part might be fitting all that under the hood, but if you wanted, you could also use the spare tire space for the heater and propane tank, and run the water (or heatant) lines to the motor compartment.
no condition is permanent

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6548
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Heater In a Box

Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:17 pm

I still think that adding any heater at the end of the day only extends range by the amount of juice you can get out of a 12volt battery.


And I've already replied that I think you're mistakenly thinking that the 12 volt battery is, essentially powering the car's heating system. Because that's the only way to get a 1 to 1 correspondence like you suggest. The only relevant factor is how much energy use by the car's heating system is made unnecessary by the auxiliary heater, which doesn't try to heat the whole car like the climate control.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

Goodtohave
Posts: 115
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:19 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2013
Location: Montreal

Re: Heater In a Box

Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:44 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
I still think that adding any heater at the end of the day only extends range by the amount of juice you can get out of a 12volt battery.


And I've already replied that I think you're mistakenly thinking that the 12 volt battery is, essentially powering the car's heating system. Because that's the only way to get a 1 to 1 correspondence like you suggest. The only relevant factor is how much energy use by the car's heating system is made unnecessary by the auxiliary heater, which doesn't try to heat the whole car like the climate control.



Actually I think this whole thread is a waste of time but if you read my post I said if you were desperate for range and had nowhere to charge at work you were better off throwing a few 12volt batteries in your trunk and hooking them in parallel to your inverter and charging the car with the level 1.

Again I live in Montreal, have a non heat pump car and by blocking the grill, insulating all the heater components under the hood and preheating I can drive with almost no heater use if I have to.

If you get in a hot car you don't need much to be comfortable.

I would not want to have an accident in a car with a hot propane heater in it. Or one with anything rigged up inside for that matter.
2012 Leaf SL
Her name is Maple...she is a Canadian Leaf

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6548
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Heater In a Box

Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:05 pm

You mean like a car with a trunk-full of large batteries and an inverter connected to them...? ;-) You're entitled to your opinion, of course. I just want to make it clear that you are quoting no actual physical laws.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

renedarling101
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:38 am
Delivery Date: 20 Jan 2014

Re: Heater In a Box

Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:14 am

I love this idea......... great work

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6548
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Heater In a Box

Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:59 pm

renedarling101 wrote:I love this idea......... great work


Thanks for the rare note of support. I'm looking for a newer storage battery and for my pinched nerve to heal before a road test, but it shouldn't be long. We're about to get frigid weather here, so I may try a very brief test with the battery I have this week.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

brent
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:34 am
Delivery Date: 05 Dec 2011
Location: Caledon, Ontario
Contact: Website

Re: Heater In a Box

Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:52 pm

When it comes to electric heaters (and even inverters for heaters) there is no such thing as an inefficient one.
100% of the juice that comes out of the battery becomes heat ... unless you're running
lights of making sound.

But then I'd love to know how much heat is lost under the hood. When I tried to follow
the heat lines, if I was looking at the right stuff, all I could see was cast aluminum that carried
hot fluid that would likely lose a huge part of the heat before it got into the heat exchanger in the
car. Anyone got a picture of diagram of what the components in the system are.

I like the idea of insulating what I can get at. Especially this week when its 6 below zero
F around here this week.
Black 2011 SL
Picked up Dec 5/11 in the first snowfall of the year.
(with snow tires)
EVSupgrade
www.duffyslanemaple.ca

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6548
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Heater In a Box

Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:03 pm

It is really amazing that Nissan didn't insulate those lines, especially in the cars with no heat pump.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6548
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Heater In a Box

Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:47 pm

I did my first "road test' of the portable heater this evening. I used my Leaf, but will be testing it in the PIP next. Considering that it was 5 to 9F outside (and about that to start with in the car), and considering that I was only able to use both heaters for about 4 minutes because of the limitations of my little deep cycle battery, the test was a success. I placed both heaters on the floor in front of the driver's seat, facing forward toward the pedals and duct-taped in place, and ran both for the first four minutes, then turned one off and used the remaining 200 watt 120 volt heater for the rest of the 1/2 hour drive. I tried to measure interior temperature, but it's possible that the little Chinese clock/thermometer I used stops at 0 degrees C. Either that or I was actually able to maintain 0C (32F) in the driver's seat area for the whole drive. The important thing is that my legs felt warm, and with the seat heater on (low) and the Leaf's steering wheel heater on, I was reasonably comfortable. I used the car's climate control to defrost the windshield for 10-30 seconds every 5 minutes or so, and used the heater for two minutes at about the halfway point. I'm pretty cold-blooded, so if I wasn't too uncomfortable, most people should find the portable system usable as well.

A few guesstimate stats:

Trip time: 29 minutes

Portable battery power used: 10AH

Climate control runtime, with heat: about 3-4 minutes

Climate control runtime, fan only: about 15 minutes

Reduction in car heater use: approximately 25 minute reduction over 29 minute trip

Again, the idea isn't to heat the car's interior. The idea is to create a 'bubble' of heat around the driver's legs, rising up somewhat around the driver to increase comfort in the otherwise cold cabin. It appears to work.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

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