User avatar
jlv
Posts: 359
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2014
Leaf Number: 424487
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:07 pm

I do the exact same drive to and from work every day: 9 miles out, 10 miles back. For almost 3 years I've been measuring my energy consumption on the drive. The average at this point is somewhere about 4.0mi/kWh, but depending upon conditions I've seen it as a low as 2.9 mi/kWh and as high as 6.2 mi/kWh. In fact, it was the day *after* I first attempted to install the PedalLogic dongle that I got the 6.2. If I hadn't failed on that first attempted install, I might have come to the mistaken conclusion that the 6.2 was because of the PedalLogic dongle (rather than that day the ambient temp was 68F, or that I accidentally drafted behind a big truck, or that I was stuck behind that person doing 30MPH in the 50MPH stretch).

By seeing such a variable in my own repeated drives, I just think there are too many factors at play in day-to-day driving to base the result on a perceived notion of the current efficiency. Perhaps I'm just a sloppy driver and everyone doing these mods is far better at controlling the way they drive and the conditions they drive in.

I have my tires at 42psi. That's an easy change to make and it probably does increase the range. I'd install a grill block and put on backwards facing mud flaps if they were as easy to do as increasing the tire pressure. Since it's a lot more effort, I'd love to be able to see some numbers that can be easily, clearly, and repeatedly measured showing that these changes make a noticeable difference. I really suspect something like a grill block does make a difference -- but does it increase efficiency by .01mi/kWh or .5mi/kWh?
'13 SL+Prem leased new 4/14Model S 75D.
Model 3 reservation.
Likelihood to buy a LEAF2: not so good.

VitaminJ
Posts: 339
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:46 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 415775
Location: Morrison, CO
Contact: YouTube

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:21 pm

As you say, your car's lifetime efficiency average is 4.0mi/kwh. If you increase the efficiency of the vehicle, it will report an increase in the lifetime efficiency of the vehicle while you, the driver, have not changed anything in how you operate the car. End of story.

Taking a razor blade to a piece of cardboard and sticking it to your grill takes the same time and effort as filling your tires to a certain PSI. Ford says it's worth 5% in a combined city/highway cycle. That's enough to get me off the couch.
2013 Ocean Blue SV w/ QC and LED

PM me about converting your 120v EVSE to 240v

User avatar
jlv
Posts: 359
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2014
Leaf Number: 424487
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:07 pm

My numbers aren't (cumulative) lifetime efficiency -- they are per-trip, reset every time I get in the car.
'13 SL+Prem leased new 4/14Model S 75D.
Model 3 reservation.
Likelihood to buy a LEAF2: not so good.

VitaminJ
Posts: 339
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:46 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 415775
Location: Morrison, CO
Contact: YouTube

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:16 pm

jlv wrote:My numbers aren't (cumulative) lifetime efficiency -- they are per-trip, reset every time I get in the car.

If you have Carvings then you can look it up. My point remains true whether you were accurate about your lifetime efficiency or not.
2013 Ocean Blue SV w/ QC and LED

PM me about converting your 120v EVSE to 240v

VitaminJ
Posts: 339
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:46 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 415775
Location: Morrison, CO
Contact: YouTube

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:15 am

Hopefully this satisfies some people because it was a pain in the butt to do!

2013 Ocean Blue SV w/ QC and LED

PM me about converting your 120v EVSE to 240v

NeilBlanchard
Posts: 506
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:02 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Oct 2014
Leaf Number: 306278

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:24 am

lorenfb wrote:Read it again! There're two factors affecting energy loss while the vehicle is moving:

1. the rolling resistance energy loss - not affected by any aero mods & contributes the most below 45 - 50 MPH, increasing tire pressure beyond normal has minimal effect
2. the drag energy loss - has the most effect at highway speeds greater than 50 MPH, without major body
re-designs and when driving at speed limits, aero mods have little to no REAL effects.

Without any real data, e.g. using a scientific methodology, the results provided in this thread are no better than conjecture!


Um, not really.

The drivetrain efficiency is the most important factor to efficiency to moving the car. This is why EV's are so much better than ICE vehicles.

The second most important factor is aerodynamic drag. For typical cars HALF the load on the drivetrain occurs at 28-30MPH. And it increases rapidly - aero drag goes up by the square of the speed.

Rolling resistance is third, and it increases linearly, so it dominates below 28-30MPH.

Weight is next - and weight can be partially regained, through coasting and regen.

Here's my blog post on this, based on the data from the Automotive X-Prize:

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/2010/09/x-prize-knockout-round-cont.html

lorenfb
Posts: 1069
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:56 am

NeilBlanchard wrote:
lorenfb wrote:Read it again! There're two factors affecting energy loss while the vehicle is moving:

1. the rolling resistance energy loss - not affected by any aero mods & contributes the most below 45 - 50 MPH, increasing tire pressure beyond normal has minimal effect
2. the drag energy loss - has the most effect at highway speeds greater than 50 MPH, without major body
re-designs and when driving at speed limits, aero mods have little to no REAL effects.

Without any real data, e.g. using a scientific methodology, the results provided in this thread are no better than conjecture!


Um, not really.

The drivetrain efficiency is the most important factor to efficiency to moving the car. This is why EV's are so much better than ICE vehicles.

The second most important factor is aerodynamic drag. For typical cars HALF the load on the drivetrain occurs at 28-30MPH. And it increases rapidly - aero drag goes up by the square of the speed.

Rolling resistance is third, and it increases linearly, so it dominates below 28-30MPH.

Weight is next - and weight can be partially regained, through coasting and regen.

Here's my blog post on this, based on the data from the Automotive X-Prize:

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/2010/09/x-prize-knockout-round-cont.html


It appears that you have failed to fully read this thread and understand the points being made,
i.e. by those making the mods. Try re-reading this thread again, i.e. THE ISSUES BEING DISCUSSED
ARE EXCLUSIVE OF THE DRIVETRAIN LOSSES!
. You obviously have overlooked where VitaminJ has
focused his efforts.

VitaminJ
Posts: 339
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:46 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 415775
Location: Morrison, CO
Contact: YouTube

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:35 am

lorenfb, do you have any opinions on the video I posted above showing the car with and without mods at 65mph?
2013 Ocean Blue SV w/ QC and LED

PM me about converting your 120v EVSE to 240v

lorenfb
Posts: 1069
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:05 pm

VitaminJ wrote:lorenfb, do you have any opinions on the video I posted above showing the car with and without mods at 65mph?


That was a good test, but please post the actual data without having the viewer remember the comparative
results from each run. It would be interesting to repeat the tests at 45 MPH for those of us not always
driving at freeway speeds. Thanks.

VitaminJ
Posts: 339
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:46 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 415775
Location: Morrison, CO
Contact: YouTube

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:26 pm

lorenfb wrote:That was a good test, but please post the actual data without having the viewer remember the comparative
results from each run. It would be interesting to repeat the tests at 45 MPH for those of us not always
driving at freeway speeds. Thanks.

Wow I thought I made that really easy by putting a popup that says "Skip to 10:12 for results." Here it is nice and easy for you:

Image


After over a year and 20 pages of this thread, which you have been a part of from the very beginning expressing skepticism...after all that you can't even be arsed to watch the test video of the test you asked for. What a great sport you are! Instead of talking about the results of my 65mph test you ask "oh gee someone should do it at 45mph instead." People like that...
2013 Ocean Blue SV w/ QC and LED

PM me about converting your 120v EVSE to 240v

Return to “Accessories / Mods”