lorenfb
Posts: 1069
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:17 am

VitaminJ wrote:
lorenfb wrote:That was a good test, but please post the actual data without having the viewer remember the comparative
results from each run. It would be interesting to repeat the tests at 45 MPH for those of us not always
driving at freeway speeds. Thanks.

Wow I thought I made that really easy by putting a popup that says "Skip to 10:12 for results." Here it is nice and easy for you:

Image


After over a year and 20 pages of this thread, which you have been a part of from the very beginning expressing skepticism...after all that you can't even be arsed to watch the test video of the test you asked for. What a great sport you are! Instead of talking about the results of my 65mph test you ask "oh gee someone should do it at 45mph instead." People like that...


So now you have to do an ad hominem attack and take the thread negative, right?

Anyway, hardly anything "to write home about", i.e. about a 6% change at 65 MPH, and that excludes
any sampling errors, e.g. data measurements & how well each speed run was maintained - your bias
in doing the test. The results at 45 MPH will be a total joke. So on average a Leaf owner might
experience a 2 -3% change in range (~ 2 miles increase in range).

Bottom line: Aero mods are a total waste of time for the typical Leaf owner!

VitaminJ
Posts: 340
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:46 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 415775
Location: Morrison, CO
Contact: YouTube

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:10 am

lorenfb wrote:So now you have to do an ad hominem attack and take the thread negative, right?
I did not make any attack on you. I just pointed out that you have been a (negative) voice in this thread since the very beginning over 2 years ago, and when your wishes were delivered in the form of a 10 minute video, you couldn't be arsed to watch it but you got the negativity down pat! That's all true unless you care to offer evidence to the contrary.

Sorry, but I don't have much patience for people who want to be part of the conversation but offer nothing of substance.

Anyway, hardly anything "to write home about", i.e. about a 6% change at 65 MPH, and that excludes
any sampling errors, e.g. data measurements & how well each speed run was maintained - your bias in doing the test.

See, this is why I made a video; so we wouldn't have to go back and forth 3 times. I made the mistake of thinking you'd watch the video so here we are going back and forth.

6% gain we both agree on now? Ok cool!

I used cruise control, set on the first run, and resumed on every subsequent run. The speed was held completely automated by the CC. You can see the CC being activated on each run in the video and the video shows that the speedo never changes from 65mph during any run.

The only bias being shown is yours, you haven't even taken a look at the evidence but you have already dissected it.

The results at 45 MPH will be a total joke. So on average a Leaf owner might
experience a 2 -3% change in range (~ 2 miles increase in range).

This is just purely conjecture on your part. Do you have stats for the average Leaf driver? Maybe you should do the test at 45mph before you make any claims.

Personally, I drive 70 miles a day on a highway that goes in the middle of nowhere and there are usually 5 or 6 other Leafs I see on the same commute. We drive at speeds up to 80mph.

Bottom line: Aero mods are a total waste of time for the typical Leaf owner!

Absolutely not. The mods will result in 0.2 mi/kwh increase in efficiency on a level, very bumpy road at 65mph. Decreased aerodynamic drag will also allow for increased regeneration under all circumstances, and more resistance to headwinds. +0.2mi/kwh will result in a gain of 4 miles over a 20kwh charge, and that gain will only increase with speed. Also on the very bumpy road I tested on, total drag from rolling resistance would be higher than on a smooth road, so therefore on smoother roads more aero benefit could be experienced. +0.2mi/kw will also allow the driver to use climate control with no penalty up to 0.2mi/kwh.

I have claimed it increased my driving efficiency by 12% or 0.5mi/kwh on my commute; well if we start with 0.2mi/kwh gain on level ground, add in increased regeneration on my 5000 vertical foot elevation change over the commute, a maximum speed of 80+mph, and also add in headwind resistance my 0.5 mi/kwh claim isn't a bridge too far.

The time you have spent in this thread vastly overshadows the 30 minutes it would take to install these mods, yet here you are! Your time was completely wasted! At least I can claim a 6% gain!
2013 Ocean Blue SV w/ QC and LED

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NeilBlanchard
Posts: 506
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:02 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Oct 2014
Leaf Number: 306278

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:52 am

Laws of physics applies to all cars. Aerodynamic drag is more than 50% of the load on many cars at ~28MPH - and the Leaf is only a bot better than average.

Check this calculator:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/tool-aero-rolling-resistance.php

VitaminJ
Posts: 340
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:46 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 415775
Location: Morrison, CO
Contact: YouTube

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:29 pm

A helpful fellow on Youtube reminded me that I did my test at about 5,600ft above sea level. At the temperature of 50 deg F that night that puts the density altitude around 6000ft. Someone at sea level would experience maybe up to 20% better gains than I did simply because the air is denser at sea level. That would be very cool if someone at sea level tested the same procedure as I did.
2013 Ocean Blue SV w/ QC and LED

PM me about converting your 120v EVSE to 240v

NeilBlanchard
Posts: 506
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:02 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Oct 2014
Leaf Number: 306278

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:55 am

Right - even barometric pressure and humidity affect the drag.

Here's a little factoid: humid air has lower drag than dryer air, all else being equal.

kidjan
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:07 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:24 am

It's also worth noting that aero mods on an electric vehicle with regenerative braking should result in a bigger efficiency increase than on an ICE vehicle, because any air resistance slowing the vehicle down could have been converted into electricity. In essence, poor aerodynamics are a penalty paid twice by cars with regenerative braking.

kidjan
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:07 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:01 pm

I've done no scientific experiments, but this winter I taped off the grill with packing tape. Last winter I averaged about ~4.0 miles/kwh, this winter I've been closer to ~4.3 miles/kwh. I never use the heater (puffer and heated seats/steering wheel do the trick).

Last winter was slightly warmer.

NeilBlanchard
Posts: 506
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:02 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Oct 2014
Leaf Number: 306278

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:53 pm

kidjan wrote:It's also worth noting that aero mods on an electric vehicle with regenerative braking should result in a bigger efficiency increase than on an ICE vehicle, because any air resistance slowing the vehicle down could have been converted into electricity. In essence, poor aerodynamics are a penalty paid twice by cars with regenerative braking.


Lower drag also means better coasting, and coasting is the best use of the kinetic energy of the moving car. Regen is great for when you need to slow down, but coasting means you accelerate less in the first place, then use it better. Regen is icing on the cake.

lorenfb
Posts: 1069
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:31 am

kidjan wrote:I've done no scientific experiments, but this winter I taped off the grill with packing tape. Last winter I averaged about ~4.0 miles/kwh, this winter I've been closer to ~4.3 miles/kwh. I never use the heater (puffer and heated seats/steering wheel do the trick).

Last winter was slightly warmer.


While traveling on freeways (50% of driving) at 60 - 65 MPH in the past, my overall average was about 4.5 miles/kWh.
Presently, my freeway speeds are 50 - 52 MPH. My overall average is now 5.1 miles/kWh. That's about a 13% improvement
without any aero mods, and how simple was that!

VitaminJ
Posts: 340
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:46 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 415775
Location: Morrison, CO
Contact: YouTube

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:46 am

lorenfb wrote:While traveling on freeways (50% of driving) at 60 - 65 MPH in the past, my overall average was about 4.5 miles/kWh.
Presently, my freeway speeds are 50 - 52 MPH. My overall average is now 5.1 miles/kWh. That's about a 13% improvement
without any aero mods, and how simple was that!

Imagine if you also had aero mods! It would be even better!
2013 Ocean Blue SV w/ QC and LED

PM me about converting your 120v EVSE to 240v

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