kidjan
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:07 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:02 am

Also, what I'm talking about is completely observable if I compare Little Cottonwood Canyon with Parleys.

Parleys is on I-80; speed limit is 70 mph. Speeds under 55 are unsafe. As a consequence of this, it's hard to maintain a safe driving speed and have significant regen because so much is wasted to aerodynamic losses. I usually take the car out of eco, put it in P to try and compromise between maintaining a safe speed but still having some regeneration. I usually regenerate a 3-5% of my battery over the 12 mile stretch.

In Little Cottonwood, however, 30-40 mph the entire way is completely feasible. I've regenerated 10-14% of my battery on the way down. Little cottonwood has slightly more elevation than parleys, so that's one factor, but it isn't enough of a factor to justify 3-4x the regen.

In parleys, regen is simply getting eaten by aero losses.

NeilBlanchard
Posts: 564
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:02 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Oct 2014
Leaf Number: 306278

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:14 am

The overall energy use is the point - coasting whenever possible is the best way to move the car using less energy.

If you don't waste energy getting the car moving, and you coast when possible, and use regen only when you need to slow the car down.

Aero drag is always a total loss, and that is why lowering the drag with modifications always saves energy. Using regen doesn't change the energy lost to drag.

kidjan
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:07 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:17 am

Coasting is not the correct answer when you have a huge amount of potential energy available to you in the form of elevation gain. Tell you what: let's do an experiment. You coast down parleys, and I'll regen down parleys, and we'll see who ends up with more battery at the bottom.

kidjan
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:07 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:19 am

Also, "Using regen doesn't change the energy lost to drag" is _not_ my argument. That's your argument. My argument is you can get more out of regen by improving aero. That's always been my argument.

User avatar
IssacZachary
Forum Supporter
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:57 am
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 420789
Location: Gunnison, CO, USA

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:36 am

Yes, improving aerodynamic shape and size will help improve efficiencies both coasting and regenerating. But the shape of the vehicle isn't the only factor that affects air drag. So does speed, for an example.

We're looking for the best overall efficiency and energy savings. Last week I did a 180 mile trip that had an 11,000ft climb and descent. Coasting down hills for several thousand feet would not have been safe, practical, nor the most efficient regardless of the aerodynamic shape modifications made to the vehicle. Nor would regenerating clear to the bottom have been the most efficient either. Since driving habits directly affect aerodynamic drag you can't talk about improving aerodynamics and not discuss driving habits and techniques.
2013 SL 45,000 miles.
12 bars until 44,300 miles on June 2, 2017. :D
11 bars current. :)
The Nissan Leaf is the fourth best long distance car for highway driving. >>Best Long Distance Cars<<

Brenthasty
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:24 pm
Delivery Date: 13 Nov 2014
Leaf Number: 023724
Location: Near portland oregon
Contact: Website

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:51 pm

IssacZachary wrote:Since driving habits directly affect aerodynamic drag


back to your armchair, time to do some googeling....

point blank aerodynamics conserves energy. as does driving technique. I have driven from castle rock washington to the mt saint helens observatory in my aeromodded nissan leaf; a distance of 55 miles and a climb of 7000' to arrive with zero battery. Then pointed my nose downhill and completed the return trip home. For a total travel distance of 110 miles including significant hills in Ruby our aeromodded 2012 nissan leaf!

Fully loaded with occupants, scopes and cameras for each...

The keys to the success of this trip to see the lunar eclipse across mnt saint hellens. was on the way up we kept the speed below 50 mph, on the way down regen anytime the speed exceed 45 mph, otherwise coast down to as low as 40 then use cruize controll to hold 40 up the next bump...

A subtle additional point of improved aerodynamics is reduced wear on the SOH of the battery. As less energy is needed to maintain any given speed, and more kenetic energy is preserved, the discharge is of a lower C rate, or wattage/capacity and recharges are for a lower KWH for any given travel distance.

I got my +++ tripple win plusses, go get you some....

kidjan
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:07 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:57 am

IssacZachary wrote:Since driving habits directly affect aerodynamic drag you can't talk about improving aerodynamics and not discuss driving habits and techniques.


Sure you can. We can all acknowledge faster = more drag = less efficient, and that's about all there is to talk about. It really isn't relevant to a thread about improving the car's aerodynamics.

User avatar
IssacZachary
Forum Supporter
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:57 am
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 420789
Location: Gunnison, CO, USA

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:35 pm

kidjan wrote:
IssacZachary wrote:Since driving habits directly affect aerodynamic drag you can't talk about improving aerodynamics and not discuss driving habits and techniques.


Sure you can. We can all acknowledge faster = more drag = less efficient, and that's about all there is to talk about. It really isn't relevant to a thread about improving the car's aerodynamics.


Well then people (me too) shouldn't be talking about how to go down hills here then either. And IMO the title "improving aerodynamics" should be changed to "improving aerodynamic shape" since that seems to be what people actually mean. Aerodynamic shape is only one part of aerodynamics. Driving when it's warmer, like during the day or when the barometric pressure is low will improve aerodynamics too. So will driving in higher altitude, or on the Moon. Driving slower improves aerodynamics. There's the practicality of a body modification that can come into question when one driver has 25mph speed limits and the other goes 85mph. Driving down a hill now causes a situation where a gain in energy from one area causes a loss in another area. But if that's all irrelevant then let's forget it all and move on. I agree that it is a bit much for one thread on aerodynamics so I apologize.
2013 SL 45,000 miles.
12 bars until 44,300 miles on June 2, 2017. :D
11 bars current. :)
The Nissan Leaf is the fourth best long distance car for highway driving. >>Best Long Distance Cars<<

kidjan
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:07 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:38 pm

I'm really not trying to talk about going down hills--I never was, and I'm really unclear why people are talking about driving technique in this thread at all. My only point: aerodynamic efficiency impacts regen, and I suspect much more than people realize.

VitaminJ
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:46 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 415775
Location: Morrison, CO
Contact: YouTube

Re: Aeromod nissan leaf improved aerodynamics increased range

Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:24 pm

kidjan, I apologize for kicking it off. Everyone is agreeing with eachother very sternly. Everyone is pretty much saying the same thing.

In aeromod news:
I was used car shopping with my dad and noticed a lot of the newer hybrids and econo cars have vortex generators around their sideview mirrors, on the roof, tail lights, and other places. I am curious about using some turbulator tape around the mirrors. Basically the idea is to reduce the flow separation on the abrupt angle on the rear side of the mirrors.

Also I got one of those really cheap shark fin antenna covers, but I'm just going to gut it and put the element inside a more teardrop shaped bubble.

Some people might laugh but every little bit counts! I remember back in my racing days people would remove the side mirrors and use little tiny convex mirrors inside the window instead. Also without the front air dam, which was only 1.5" tall, you would lose a car length or two on the straights. Those were 110hp cars and it made a big difference.
2013 Ocean Blue SV w/ QC and LED

PM me about converting your 120v EVSE to 240v

Return to “Accessories / Mods”