Anyone else surprised that no one has come out with a Tesla destination charger for J1772

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webeleafowners

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Messages
1,306
Location
Okanagan Valley British Columbia
As per the title. I know there seem to be a couple companies that have started them and show them on their website as no stock but there is actually none that really exist to buy. We have a number of businesses that have tesla only destination chargers in our area. Wineries etc. Most don't know there is any other format and don't know what a j1772 plug is. As a result we have businesses that are dissapointed that non TESLAS can't charge at their business's. I'm just surprised that no one has come up with a solution.
 
webeleafowners said:
... I'm just surprised that no one has come up with a solution.
Maybe because no manufacturer can guarantee that its adapter would work reliably?

The rumor is that TSLA recently added a screw you feature to its public EVSEs (edit) to restrict their use:

...Tesla's new destination chargers have a new handshake mode that blocks non-Tesla vehicles...
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/speculation-new-charging-plug.88364/page-23
 
webeleafowners said:
I'm not referring to superchargers. I'm referring to destination chargers...
As am I. Read the comments at the thread I linked.

And I suggest the use of the terms AC/DC charge sites (my mistake to write AC chargers above) rather than TSLA's silly jargon.

The point being, if the rumors are true, TSLA is moving to block use of TSLA-plug EVSEs to anyone who does not buy a Tesla.

Entirely consistent with the TSLA policy on public DC Charge sites:

What's ours is ours, and your's we can share...
 
This is just me, but I believe Tesla is doing this becasue they will have a flood of new vehicles added and they don't want the backlash when a Tesla owner gets to a "destination" charger and there is a Leaf, Bolt or some other EV in the spot. If Tesla is paying or significantly subsidizing the installation of these chargers I think it is up to them how they are used. I think if enough folks with other EV's with J1772 show up with no place to plug in the locations will likely add J1772 support. I think we as EV owners need to let business know we would frequent their business if they did have a J1772 station. We did this and when we contacted the grocery store that was going to be built they said they were already considering it and we were the 3rd person to ask about it and they said that was enough for them to go ahead with install them.
 
edatoakrun said:
webeleafowners said:
What's ours is ours, and your's we can share...
Nonsense

Tesla paid for the SC network and destination chargers
"You" paid squat directly, and indirectly just as much as a Tesla owner did through taxes.
This is no different than some Nissan dealerships restricting use of their J1772 EVSE to Nissan EV owners. Well within their rights.

OP: use of a Tesla charger to charge a non-Tesla car is an unauthorized use. The J1772 adapters are illegal and you can expect Tesla to continue blocking their use. If you damage a Tesla EVSE you are liable.
 
TomT said:
As well they have every right to!

SageBrush said:
Use of a Tesla charger to charge a non-Tesla car is an unauthorized use. The J1772 adapters are illegal and you can expect Tesla to continue blocking their use.

Well, unauthorized I can see, maybe, depending on where it is, illegal might be a stretch. Anyway, I wrote this from the point of view of businesses that installed the tesla destination chargers that didn't realize they were unique to Tesla electric vehicles. Remember, most folks know very little about EV's. So now they are in a situation where they have a client pull up to their charger which they thought was good for all EVs and now they find that it is compatible with only one manufacturer. We contacted a bed and breakfast that recently installed a "electric car charger for our clients" and they were quite disappointed that it only worked with one manufacturer. They are now looking into what it will take to put in a "universal" (in their words (J1772) type EVSE. Anyway. No big deal. I though maybe there would be a simple solution's for these folks but apparently not.

Cheers.
 
webeleafowners said:
TomT said:
As well they have every right to!

SageBrush said:
Use of a Tesla charger to charge a non-Tesla car is an unauthorized use. The J1772 adapters are illegal and you can expect Tesla to continue blocking their use.

Well, unauthorized I can see, maybe, depending on where it is, illegal might be a stretch. Anyway, I wrote this from the point of view of businesses that installed the tesla destination chargers that didn't realize they were unique to Tesla electric vehicles. .
Typically **Tesla** pays for those destination chargers. The hardware for sure; I'm not sure about the installation.

I'll tell you what it will take to install a J1772 EVSE: money out of the mechant's pocket.
 
SageBrush said:
webeleafowners said:
TomT said:
As well they have every right to!

Well, unauthorized I can see, maybe, depending on where it is, illegal might be a stretch. Anyway, I wrote this from the point of view of businesses that installed the tesla destination chargers that didn't realize they were unique to Tesla electric vehicles. .
Typically **Tesla** pays for those destination chargers. The hardware for sure; I'm not sure about the installation.

I'll tell you what it will take to install a J1772 EVSE: money out of the mechant's pocket.

Yah. Its not expensive and since the power is already there for the Tesla charger one could simply have an electrician do a A/B switch type thing so the power source could be shared. Not an electrician though so don't know the code ramifications of this. Seems doable though. Even if they went with an exterior clipper creek or something I suspect throwing a thousand bucks at the problem would solve it. Having said that for small business that can be a lot, especially since they probably already laid out at least some money for the installation of the Tesla station. I don't think it is a common occurrence but have run into it a few times. Meh.
 
If Tesla paid for it, then I would say that it is reasonable for Tesla to ask for exclusivity for a fixed time period, e.g. 3 years. I would expect Tesla's contract with the business owner would spell that out. Absent any contractual obligation, it's entirely up to the business owner to do what they want with the equipment.

Cheers, Wayne
 
webeleafowners said:
especially since they probably already laid out at least some money for the installation of the Tesla station.
Probably not.
http://www.teslarati.com/becoming-tesla-destination-charging-participant/
 
SageBrush said:
Typically **Tesla** pays for those destination chargers. The hardware for sure; I'm not sure about the installation.

I'll tell you what it will take to install a J1772 EVSE: money out of the mechant's pocket.
wwhitney said:
If Tesla paid for it, then I would say that it is reasonable for Tesla to ask for exclusivity for a fixed time period, e.g. 3 years. I would expect Tesla's contract with the business owner would spell that out. Absent any contractual obligation, it's entirely up to the business owner to do what they want with the equipment.

Not far from where I am, when I'm in Wisconsin, there is a local Winery where Tesla paid to install 3 destination charging stations but also paid to install one J1772 standard charging station as well (and not because the owner asked or even knew to ask), they just did it as part of the outreach

I think its a good business model for Tesla to include other electric cars in their destination charging station program as it both promotes electric cars (generally a good thing) and helps many of us feel better about a company that so far has used a lot of federal dollars to make vehicles exclusively for the 1%. Even if the Model S ends up more than vaporware it's still priced at $30k (likely more) and that's still a price point for the upper 10%. Still a very long way from a car for the masses.

Note: I have no connection to the Winery discussed and linked here. I've talked to the owner while charging my Leaf and shopping at his business. If you visit here, I recommend you get some of the Cranberry Wine Cheese - its the best! The picture below is from PlugShare.

 
jpadc said:
Not far from where I am, when I'm in Wisconsin, there is a local Winery where Tesla paid to install 3 destination charging stations but also paid to install one J1772 standard charging station as well (and not because the owner asked or even knew to ask), they just did it as part of the outreach

I think its a good business model for Tesla to include other electric cars in their destination charging station program as it both promotes electric cars (generally a good thing) and helps many of us feel better about a company that so far has used a lot of federal dollars to make vehicles exclusively for the 1%. Even if the Model S ends up more than vaporware it's still priced at $30k (likely more) and that's still a price point for the upper 10%. Still a very long way from a car for the masses.
You are right that Tesla does include a J1772 plug sometimes, also on their dime. It is very generous of them and should not set a bar.

Your argument about federal dollars is disingenuous for two reasons:
1. The federal subsidy is through the car purchase program. It has nothing to do with chargers. Do you criticize Nissan for using that same subsidy but not installing destination chargers AT ALL ? The same goes for Toyota, Fiat, etc.
2. EVs are around 1% of car buyers. The other 99% do not benefit from the EVSEs at all but pay into the pot to set up public L2 charging stations. That does not bother you, does it ?

Apologies for the harsh tone. Hypocrisy annoys me.
 
QuickChargePower makes an adapter.

http://shop.quickchargepower.com/JDapter-Stub-Tesla-Charge-Station-Adaptor-JDPTRSTB.htm

This is also useful for someone like me who has a Tesla high power wall connector and a Nissan Leaf at home.
 
jpadc said:
...Not far from where I am, when I'm in Wisconsin, there is a local Winery where Tesla paid to install 3 destination charging stations but also paid to install one J1772 standard charging station as well (and not because the owner asked or even knew to ask), they just did it as part of the outreach...
I've also worked with several local wineries. Each installation is location specific, usually related to how much space is available in both parking and electrical. If plenty of electricity is available, the "normal" install is two 80amp Tesla HPWCs and one 40amp ClipperCreek J1772. As I understand it, Tesla provides the EVSEs and up to $2500 for the installation after approval (I think three quotes are required, but not sure). The destination owner is responsible for contracting and installation. Probably this week or next, I will confirm with the latest winery. For locations with limited electricity or parking, the installation might be as small as one 40 amp HPWC, or any mix with higher numbers. In high EV density areas, they might go as far as eight HPWCs (I've seen some hotel resorts with four or six). In my low EV density area, we're lucky to see even one EVSE, Tesla or J1772 (although Tesla has now installed EVSEs at at least FOUR local hotels). I've never seen more than one ClipperCreek installed by Tesla, but I won't say it hasn't happened. In areas with more than one non-Tesla J1772, it's usually a SunCountry or other non-Tesla entity doing those installations. Hope this helps.
 
Yes, we frequent the Pines Lodge and Sea Otter Inn in Cambria, California and they did the same thing there... Two designation chargers and one 1772... One of the many reasons why I am looking forward to joining the Tesla family with a Model 3...

jpadc said:
Not far from where I am, when I'm in Wisconsin, there is a local Winery where Tesla paid to install 3 destination charging stations but also paid to install one J1772 standard charging station as well (and not because the owner asked or even knew to ask), they just did it as part of the outreach.
 
I checked on them in April when I got my Leaf and they were not available. The web site showed "coming soon" or something to that effect. The presence of the "add to cart" button would seem to indicate that they are available now.

I agree that $400 is pretty spendy. However, I might have done it because I already had the HPWC in place and the price for this was less than adding a 14-50 plug and buying an EVSE just for the Leaf. Similarly, the original post references businesses who already have the HPWC in place and wish to serve a larger market. For $400, this solution is probably much cheaper than anything else they could do.

Theft of service is a mighty strong statement. For the situation where a non-Tesla owner buys the adapter, pulls up to a destination charger, and plugs in without permission, I suppose you could say that. But I could plug in my Tesla without permission and it wouldn't be any different.

But for the owner of the HPWC who wants to expand its utility, there is nothing wrong with the JDapter.
 
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