miles /kwh

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bernie82

Well-known member
Joined
May 25, 2012
Messages
90
Location
sacramento, Ca
I have a 2012 Leaf which is supposed to have the latest software upgrade. My miles / kwh seems to by way too optimistic. According to Tony Williams range chart, driving at 60 MPH, I should be getting a miles / KWH reading of 3.9 and be able to drive 82 miles to turtle. At 60 MPH I do get to Turtle at 82 miles but the miles to KWH readout on the console is 4.3. If 4.3 was correct, my range should be about 90 miles so 4.3 is obviously wrong. This discrepancy is consistent with speed tests of 65 MPH and 55 MPH.
I notice that many of you refer to the miles to KWH on the console as accurate data. Is it just my Leaf that's off or haves others found high miles to KWH ratios as well?
 
Gary, I did reset the KWH meter. My tire pressure is 36 lbs. If you believe 4.3 is accurate at 60 MPH then with a 21 kilowatt battery fully charged, you should be able to drive 4.3 x 21 = 90 miles. From you mouth to God's ears if I could go 90 miles at 60mph.
 
bernie82 said:
Gary, I did reset the KWH meter. My tire pressure is 36 lbs. If you believe 4.3 is accurate at 60 MPH then with a 21 kilowatt battery fully charged, you should be able to drive 4.3 x 21 = 90 miles. From you mouth to God's ears if I could go 90 miles at 60mph.
Click to expand...

A LOT of us would love to be able to do that. :cry:
 
bernie82 said:
According to Tony Williams range chart, driving at 60 MPH, I should be getting a miles / KWH reading of 3.9 and be able to drive 82 miles to turtle. At 60 MPH I do get to Turtle at 82 miles but the miles to KWH readout on the console is 4.3.
Click to expand...
Tony's chart is "rule of thumb". I expect wide variations depending how you actually drive, terrain etc etc. The chart might also be somewhat convervative.
 
So, EVNOW, can you go 90 miles at 60 mph (4.3)? How I drive to do this check? I reset the Miles/ KWH indicator when my speedometer reads 60 MPH on the freeway, and drive about 30 miles on flat terrain during daylight hours with climate control off. I get a miles / Kwh reading of 4.3.
 
bernie82 said:
Gary, I did reset the KWH meter. My tire pressure is 36 lbs. If you believe 4.3 is accurate at 60 MPH then with a 21 kilowatt battery fully charged, you should be able to drive 4.3 x 21 = 90 miles. From you mouth to God's ears if I could go 90 miles at 60mph.
Click to expand...
Yes, with a new car I fully expect one to be able to drive around 90 miles at an indicated 60 mph in optimal conditions.

Tony's range test found that at a 64 mph indicated, the best cars traveled nearly 80 miles. If they had been brand new and drove at an indicated 60 mph, I have no doubt they would have hit 90 miles on a single charge.
 
bernie82 said:
So, EVNOW, can you go 90 miles at 60 mph (4.3)? How I drive to do this check? I reset the Miles/ KWH indicator when my speedometer reads 60 MPH on the freeway, and drive about 30 miles on flat terrain during daylight hours with climate control off. I get a miles / Kwh reading of 4.3.
Click to expand...

With no capacity loss, a 4.3 would indicate about 90 miles of range. But, what matters more is, how are you going to use this information. I would not plan on driving 90 miles @ 60.

A few things to consider
- your "flat" road may not be flat. You should do a round about trip to be sure
- Actual driving conditions would definitely vary (wind, may be some stop and go etc).
- 21 kWh is the total available. That includes once you hit low battery, very low battery and turtle. You can't go at 60 mph once you hit turtle - and you wouldn't want to after VLB, given you are running short on charge
 
bernie82 said:
I have a 2012 Leaf which is supposed to have the latest software upgrade. My miles / kwh seems to by way too optimistic. According to Tony Williams range chart, driving at 60 MPH, I should be getting a miles / KWH reading of 3.9 and be able to drive 82 miles to turtle. At 60 MPH I do get to Turtle at 82 miles but the miles to KWH readout on the console is 4.3. If 4.3 was correct, my range should be about 90 miles so 4.3 is obviously wrong. This discrepancy is consistent with speed tests of 65 MPH and 55 MPH.
I notice that many of you refer to the miles to KWH on the console as accurate data. Is it just my Leaf that's off or haves others found high miles to KWH ratios as well?
Click to expand...

There are a number of unreported variables that prevent precisely answering the question of typical "new" range at ~60 mph, but if your trip was on a level route near sea level elevation in cooler temperatures, I very much doubt you LEAF could make it to 90 miles. The only way to find out for sure, is to try...

It is very possible that your dash m/kWh is incorrect. The Arizona test seems to have confirmed extreme inaccuracy (a range of ~20%, IIRC) in the LEAFs dash m/kWh between different LEAFs.

A few months earlier, I found and posted what seems to be a consistent change in reporting of kWh use over time of about 10% in a single LEAF, my own.

...I tried to replicate as accurately as possible, my earliest range test,of almost a year, and almost 10,000 miles ago, to test this hypothesis.

I chose a day with very close to the original temperature condition, and drove the exact same route over the first 87 miles of the trip, using the same mode (eco) and used my original trip logs to closely replicate the same elapsed times for each of the three (same distance) legs of the trip.

The results from 8/30/12 were:

97.3 miles to VLB, 98.9 miles in total, by the odometer.

CW: 96.5 (~2.5% under-report) total miles, at 5.7 m/kWh, 16.8 kWh used from 100% to about the same capacity level, slightly past VLBW.

Compare this test with my first test on 9/7/11:

91.5 miles to VLB, 93.4 in total, by the odometer

CW: 91.1 (~2.5% under-report) total miles, at 4.9 m/kWh, 18.7 kWh used from 100% to about the same capacity level, slightly past VLBW.

I do not believe that the slight increase in range over the last year reflects any increase in battery capacity. On the contrary, I expect that my total capacity ( though maybe not the amount of kWh that the BMS is allowing me to access) has declined by an undetermined amount, but it cannot be detected due to the “noise” of uncontrolled variables in a range test.

But I think the decrease of over 10% of reported kWh use, is simply too great to be consistent...
Click to expand...

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=9064&start=20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
bernie82 said:
What say we do a poll on not what we fully expect but what we have done driving our Leafs. 90 mile range at 60 MPH, yea or nea.
Click to expand...
The closest I ever came was 87.1 miles driving around 65 for about 30 miles, 60 for about 45 miles, and the rest around 50. This was when I had 1400 miles on my odometer. m/kWh read 4.1 for the trip. I ended just above VLBW (GOM said 4).

Later, at about 7000 miles, I drove 82.9 miles ending just at VLBW. This was primarily at 55 mph, though about 20 miles of slower back roads, including a steep 900 foot pass. m/kWh read 4.6.

Note that I always read m/kWh on the dash, which is slightly lower than the center console.

Ray
 
The other thing to consider is that the chart assumes you do nothing but drive that speed. To reproduce the number, you'd have to reset the mpk readout while going 60 on a flat route or doing a round trip (without slowing down!). For instance, on my commute, doing 65 on the freeway, I manage 4.0 mpk...but if I were to plan a longer trip that had more time spent at 65mph, I'd assume my efficiency would come in closer to the 3.6mpk that Tony lists on the chart.
 
davewill said:
The other thing to consider is that the chart assumes you do nothing but drive that speed. To reproduce the number, you'd have to reset the mpk readout while going 60 on a flat route or doing a round trip (without slowing down!). For instance, on my commute, doing 65 on the freeway, I manage 4.0 mpk...but if I were to plan a longer trip that had more time spent at 65mph, I'd assume my efficiency would come in closer to the 3.6mpk that Tony lists on the chart.
Click to expand...

The next version will update the economy and speeds to reflect real world.

That means 4.0 miles/kWh at 65mph.
 

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