KevinSharpe
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cash strapped councils turning off RFID Charging Stations

Sun May 20, 2012 3:12 am

We've been discussing for a while the problems with RFID based charging networks and what happens when the PiP scheme ends in march.

I've also been concerned about councils ability to pay for charging networks that few people use. I've heard rumours about Brighton turning off posts but here's a council who's RFID network is no longer accepting cards and has reverted to pre-booked charging by telephone (photo from David Peilow);

David_Peilow_Winchester.jpeg
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KJD
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Re: cash strapped councils turning off RFID Charging Station

Sun May 20, 2012 6:41 am

Does this mean they would rather pay for troops to die in the middle east ?

A very sad day for all of us.
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TonyWilliams
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Re: cash strapped councils turning off RFID Charging Station

Sun May 20, 2012 8:22 am

We are going to have many failures in the USA, also.

There are relatively few political (government) owners of public chargers here in California. Many that are installed are done so without regard to use or economies, since virtually all are installed with tax payer money. The only real requirement is "who will accept them".

The next phase will be the usual disillusion when few people show up to use them, and even fewer will pay to use them. DC charging just amplifies everything.

And now we've got General Motors in California doing their best to stop Nissan with deployment of ChadeMo chargers (they actually sent a representative a few days ago to the state legislature to argue that we should stop ChadeMo deployment in favor of their new "standard" with zero cars deployed).

Bottom line, owners will "pull the plug" rather than continuing to subsidize EV drivers, perhaps as has happened in your area.

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TomT
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Re: cash strapped councils turning off RFID Charging Station

Sun May 20, 2012 8:29 am

It will be interesting to see if the 2014 Leaf continues with ChadeMo, abdicates to the SAE, has both, or goes a completely different direction as with Renault... Nissan has to see that the handwriting is on the wall...

TonyWilliams wrote:And now we've got General Motors in California doing their best to stop Nissan with deployment of ChadeMo chargers (they actually sent a representative a few days ago to the state legislature to argue that we should stop ChadeMo deployment in favor of their new "standard" with zero cars deployed).
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KevinSharpe
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Re: cash strapped councils turning off RFID Charging Station

Sun May 20, 2012 8:55 am

TomT wrote:It will be interesting to see if the 2014 Leaf continues with ChadeMo, abdicates to the SAE, has both, or goes a completely different direction as with Renault... Nissan has to see that the handwriting is on the wall...
Yeh, it's fascinating how this is panning out... the UK is an ideal country for CHAdeMO because it's very small and has high population density. However, the delays in deploying DC, and the immanent arrival of the Renault ZOE, lead me to conclude that the first mass deployment of 'fast' charging in the UK will be 43kW AC.
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TonyWilliams
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Re: cash strapped councils turning off RFID Charging Station

Sun May 20, 2012 9:00 am

TomT wrote:It will be interesting to see if the 2014 Leaf continues with ChadeMo, abdicates to the SAE, has both, or goes a completely different direction as with Renault... Nissan has to see that the handwriting is on the wall...


Should SAE gain real traction (that means quite simply that there are more SAE cars and SAE Frankenplugs deployed than ChadeMo ones), then sure, it may happen.

That won't happen until 2017-2018, if ever. I'm not convinced that a new standard won't replace both Frankenplug and ChadeMo. Chrysler and Ford are not pushing the Frankenplug, just GM in the USA. How many Frankenplug cars do you think they might sell through 2020 ?

BMW will not sell as many as Nissan in the USA, simply because they'll cost more. They are hedging their bets with a petrol burning option on i3 and i8 is only petrol equipped. What's on the horizon through 2020 is a lot more Nissan EVs with ChadeMo than the competition.

Obviously, SAE and GM smell that, and are now using "standards by press release" and the old classic, "get the government to make a rule to protect and enhance your business".

Honestly, in places where it counts, like western US where most EVs will be, it will be predominantly ChadeMo. Nissan would be wise to offer access to BOTH plugs, because I KNOW that GM will be too dense to do so.

Nissan can put the Frankenplug right next to the Chademo port. Now the car would accept J1772, SAE DC, and ChadeMo.
Last edited by TonyWilliams on Sun May 20, 2012 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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TonyWilliams
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Re: cash strapped councils turning off RFID Charging Station

Sun May 20, 2012 9:09 am

KevinSharpe wrote:the Renault ZOE, lead me to conclude that the first mass deployment of 'fast' charging in the UK will be 43kW AC.


Yet another standard. Plus, I'm confident that Tesla will sell more than a few Model S's in the UK and Europe.

KevinSharpe
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Re: cash strapped councils turning off RFID Charging Station

Sun May 20, 2012 9:28 am

TonyWilliams wrote:Yet another standard.
Well, it is the agreed standard for AC across Europe and we already have a lot of this deployed at lower power levels. It's also electrically compatible with J1772 so you just need a 'dumb' cable.

You also can't ignore the economics... 43KW AC Charging Station £500. 50kW DC CHAdeMO charger for £8000.
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KevinSharpe
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Re: cash strapped councils turning off RFID Charging Station

Sun May 20, 2012 9:30 am

TonyWilliams wrote:I'm confident that Tesla will sell more than a few Model S's in the UK and Europe.
True, but they will include 3 Phase AC charging that is fully compatible with the 43kW AC charging standards.
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