Some talk of a NIssan Electric SUV

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The 2nd gen looks better than the 1st gen, but still not pretty IMHO. This is coming from someone who once had a 1st gen Leaf.

And yes people do get turned off by styling they hate. Some (like Leaf owners) are willing to overlook that, others aren't. There's gotta be a reason why Tesla's Model 3 is outselling the Bolt despite availability issues and (at the moment) a much higher sticker price.
 
The Bolt has an interior that is both Fugly and uncomfortable. It has the harsh ride of the Model 3 without the sports car handling. It also looks like a Korean crossover wannabe.
 
RonDawg said:
There's gotta be a reason why Tesla's Model 3 is outselling the Bolt despite availability issues and (at the moment) a much higher sticker price.

It does not matter how well Tesla is selling because that car is in an other universe... It is like European luxury cars. Those are cars that you LEASE and DO NOT OWN.

Down the road of ownership, all Teslas will be like a beautiful lady vampire... It will be a sight to see, but will bleed you dry when you have to do any work on it....
 
powersurge said:
RonDawg said:
There's gotta be a reason why Tesla's Model 3 is outselling the Bolt despite availability issues and (at the moment) a much higher sticker price.

It does not matter how well Tesla is selling because that car is in an other universe... It is like European luxury cars. Those are cars that you LEASE and DO NOT OWN.
FWIW, AFAIK, unlike the S and X, you cannot lease the 3 yet. You might be able to lease a 3 thru a 3rd party.

Also from http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2018/10/september-2018-ytd-u-s-passenger-car-sales-rankings-best-selling-cars-in-america/, if you sort by date, the Model 3 is the 4th best selling car in the US for Sept 2018. http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2018/10/september-2018-the-best-selling-vehicles-in-america-every-vehicle-ranked/ is the report for US light vehicles.

It is also decimating all other plug-in vehicle sales in the US: https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/ since July.
 
cwerdna said:
It {Model 3} is also decimating all other plug-in vehicle sales in the US: https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/ since July.

I don't see this. BEVs:

LEAF sales in September were the second highest month for this year, only May is higher.
Bolt sales in September were the second highest month for this year, only March is higher.

Model S and Model X are both records in September.
 
WetEV said:
cwerdna said:
It {Model 3} is also decimating all other plug-in vehicle sales in the US: https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/ since July.

I don't see this. BEVs:

LEAF sales in September were the second highest month for this year, only May is higher.
Bolt sales in September were the second highest month for this year, only March is higher.

Model S and Model X are both records in September.
Model 3 is at 78K units in the US YTD.
Prius Prime is at 20.5K YTD (#2 in the YTD spot)
Leaf is at 10.6K
Bolt is at 11.8K

From Feb 2018 onward, Model 3 monthly sales have been past 2K units/month. During this period, not a single month of Leaf nor Bolt has reached 2K.

For July, Aug and Sept, estimated # Model 3's sold were 14.2K, 17.8K and 22.2K, respectively. This is with no leasing thru Tesla possible.
For Leaf, the numbers were 1.1K, 1.3K and 1.5K. No other plug-in vehicle on those months has reached even 4K units in a given month.

So, Model 3 coming out of nowhere w/a very rocky production start last year is now outselling Leaf and Bolt each by about 10:1, or more, in the US. That seems like decimation to me.
 
cwerdna said:
So, Model 3 coming out of nowhere w/a very rocky production start last year is now outselling Leaf and Bolt each by about 10:1 in the US. That seems like decimation to me.
You got us there ;) . That seems like fairly close to the original definition of decimation.
 
Dooglas said:
cwerdna said:
So, Model 3 coming out of nowhere w/a very rocky production start last year is now outselling Leaf and Bolt each by about 10:1 in the US. That seems like decimation to me.
You got us there ;) . That seems like fairly close to the original definition of decimation.
Started with the Roman army. After poor performance in battle one in ten would be killed as punishment. Model 3 estimated sales last month was 14 times Bolt.
 
If the other EV options don't improve their offerings quickly, Tesla is going to eat everyone's lunch. And that will be especially true once they get around to selling cars in the $30k range and resoundingly so once they get a model under $30k.

Tesla has a pretty good formula. Hopefully they can soon get their products into the under $30k bracket as that is what the country needs to really get widespread adoption.
 
If the other EV options don't improve their offerings quickly, Tesla is going to eat everyone's lunch. And that will be especially true once they get around to selling cars in the $30k range and resoundingly so once they get a model under $30k

Tesla is sport and range oriented. I love EVs, but with no heated steering wheel, a harsh ride, less than easy access, and other considerations, I wouldn't drive one. Maserati isn't eating Toyota's lunch.
 
DarthPuppy said:
If the other EV options don't improve their offerings quickly, Tesla is going to eat everyone's lunch. And that will be especially true once they get around to selling cars in the $30k range and resoundingly so once they get a model under $30k.

Tesla has a pretty good formula. Hopefully they can soon get their products into the under $30k bracket as that is what the country needs to really get widespread adoption.

Nobody is eating anyone's lunch... Tesla is the "Candyman" of evs, with the promise unimagined technical marvel. However, their business model is to relieve you of your children's inheritance when things need to be fixed down the road.

They may be selling many units now, but each unit that people "buy" (not lease =rent) will be so lacking in availability of aftermarket parts that Teslas will be selling for old Leaf prices in a few years.

Back to the topic, I want an EV SUV that is not just a bigger version of a 5 passenger Leaf... It should be a 6-7 passenger, three rows of passengers (lower to the ground than an SUV) in the style of the Mazda 5, which is a cross-over mini Minivan....
 
DanCar said:
Dooglas said:
cwerdna said:
So, Model 3 coming out of nowhere w/a very rocky production start last year is now outselling Leaf and Bolt each by about 10:1 in the US. That seems like decimation to me.
You got us there ;) . That seems like fairly close to the original definition of decimation.
Started with the Roman army. After poor performance in battle one in ten would be killed as punishment. Model 3 estimated sales last month was 14 times Bolt.

Exactly. Decimation implies that it is lowering the numbers. In fact, it is not. Tesla Model 3 sales are blowing past all other BEVs, but other BEVs' sales numbers are actually on the rise. Exactly the opposite of decimation.
 
GerryAZ said:
I am interested if it is AWD, has good ergonomics, has readable instrumentation, and is available WITHOUT automatic emergency braking (AEB).


All automakers that sell vehicles in the USA have agreed to make AEB standard on all USA cars by 2022.

Any new $35k vehicle hitting the market in 2019 or later will have AEB.
 
DeeAgeaux said:
All automakers that sell vehicles in the USA have agreed to make AEB standard on all USA cars by 2022.
Any new $35k vehicle hitting the market in 2019 or later will have AEB.

Then I will not be buying new cars--too bad another possibly dangerous "safety feature" is becoming mandatory. I might decide it is safer to hit something in the road such as a box rather than slam on the brakes and hope a large vehicle behind me can stop before hitting me. AEB takes this decision process away from me. This reminds me of mandatory first-generation air bags killing small drivers in minor crashes. I had to replace a perfectly good SUV in the late 1990s because it was not safe for short drivers and the manufacturer's local dealers were unwilling to install a disabling kit. The extent of the hazard was kept under wraps for a while, but it eventually became public. Then it became mandatory for manufacturers to offer disabling kits to short drivers. Unfortunately, the local dealers were afraid of liability and would not install the kits or sell the parts.
 
LeftieBiker said:
As I understand it, AEB works at lower speeds only - 20MPH or less, IIRC.

Now if you look at AEB as preventing a crash, then yes it is generally most effective for that when speeds are low,

Depending on the sophistication of the system, AEB can lessen crash severity at any reasonable (for the US) speed, but at freeway speeds may not fully stop the car. Still better to hit an object at 40 MPH (which is what the IIHS does frontal crash tests at) than 70 MPH, if the car is so capable.

According to https://www.carprousa.com/how-well-do-automatic-braking-systems-work AAA tested AEB systems at least to 45 MPH, with impact speeds reduced to between 9 and 74 percent at that speed, depending on system.
 
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