rust-proofing undercarriage

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JoeOgnibene

New member
Joined
Apr 6, 2013
Messages
3
I live in Iceland, where roads can be salted from November to May. I imported a LEAF two weeks ago and am looking into tectyl rust-proofing the car sooner than later. Is there anything to be cautious about when treating the undercarriage, especially since that is where the batteries are? Typically the car's underneath will be cleaned with a high pressure washer before coated with tectyl, and I am aware that the car should not be heated to dry after this wash. So the main question here is whether rust-proofing the batteries is necessary or harmful.
 
This is a good question. There is a time-lapse of the Leaf being assembled ( http://green.autoblog.com/2013/04/29/nissan-leaf-time-lapse-shows-the-ev-being-built/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ), and it looked to me like the battery pack was sheathed completely in plastic (see timepoint 4:34) ; in which case, I can't see any point in spraying rust-proofing on it. Moreover, the underside of the car is covered front to back with plastic covers for better airflow; there's no advantage to putting rustproof on this; it would just add weight.For rustproofing you might remove the underside cover, but keep spray away from battery pack.
 
I wouldn't rustproof a LEAF. If you removed the plastic covers and rustproofed underneath, you likely would mess up the thermal design of the battery cooling system. Also, if you watch the video referenced above, you can see that nearly the entire structure goes through a dip before painting. I don't know the exact purpose of the dip, but I will guess that it is partially related to rustproofing.
 
The first "dip" steps in paint shop are for electroplating, which serves several purposes, including making the car less subject to corrosion.

The last commenter mentioned "battery cooling system" - is there really provision for cooling the Leaf battery? I know that newer versions can heat the battery. Any battery cooling I would think would be just via airflow over the battery itself; if so, rustproofing other areas should be harmless except for adding weight.

Actually this question about rustproofing would probably be best put to the Nissan dealer, who can check with factory rep. Rust can indeed be a problem where heavy salt is used. (I would think that Nissan would have tested for this.)

My question would go to this: which will happen faster - body rusts out or battery wears out? Once battery wears out, car will have little or no value due to high cost of replacement battery ($12K to $15K on a Leaf), so you wouldn't be concerned about body rust at that point anyway.
 
electrifeyed said:
My question would go to this: which will happen faster - body rusts out or battery wears out? Once battery wears out, car will have little or no value due to high cost of replacement battery ($12K to $15K on a Leaf), so you wouldn't be concerned about body rust at that point anyway.

Could you cite your sources? I would expect the OP's battery to last a long time given the cool temperatures (Reykjavik has a monthly average high of 57 degrees F). I am unsure where you got $12k to $15k for a new LEAF battery. I would also expect whatever the cost is today that in 10 years the cost would be less.

Clearly the rust proofing would not be applied to the plastic, they would obviously be first removed.

I doubt a little extra material is going to impact the thermal properties of the battery, and if anything maybe it would insulate them a little bit so they'd stay warmer.

If the OP thinks their local conditions warrant additional rust proofing then I think they know best about if this will improve the quality of the car while they own it then it's probably a good idea.
 
The general rule in this day and age seems to be do not go with after market rust-proofing. I get the impression it is a bygone era type thing, that maybe was needed but isn't now. I certainly have zero intention of doing it on any car I buy now.
 
I just purchased my new 2012 Leaf 3 weeks ago (2013 still not available in Canada). The dealership tried their hardest to sell me a rust proofing coating. I imagine though that it was completely based on their typical experience with the car, as the person trying to sell me this feature really seemed to have no clue as to how the Leaf was constructed. I noticed there are lots of built in design features that will help prevent rust. The rear wheel well doesn't have a lip to hold dirt etc. which usually causes rust. There are very few exposed pieces of metal that will actually hold crud.
 
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
The general rule in this day and age seems to be do not go with after market rust-proofing. I get the impression it is a bygone era type thing, that maybe was needed but isn't now. I certainly have zero intention of doing it on any car I buy now.

My impression too. I remember in the 1970s in Chicago (also a heavy salt zone in the winter) that nobody bought a new car without adding Ziebart or TuffKote rustproofing. Used cars with that rustproofing sold for a lot more - and it was common to see non-rustproofed used cars with rusted body panels and floor boards. By the 1990s however, the word was that manufacturers pre-rustproofed the cars during the manufacturing process. I just did a Google on Ziebart and TuffKote and see they are still brand names but both have moved into different, but related fields.

One of the problems with rustproofing back then was that the after-market firm had to drill holes in the body, spray inside panels, and seal up the holes. As cars became more complex with electronics everywhere and safety crumple zones and the like the rustproofing starting to actually cause problems.
 
dustinb said:
The rear wheel well doesn't have a lip to hold dirt etc. which usually causes rust. There are very few exposed pieces of metal that will actually hold crud.
I made a thread about this and consider this to be a weakness in the car. It doesn't hold dirt, but without the plastic guard that is highly common in this area on many cars now, rocks will ping that area regularly and once one breaks through the paint I expect erosion. I had a minivan that suffered that problem massively, and noticed that many other contemporary vehicles without rust do have a plastic shield in the rear wheel well area, presumably to protect against exactly that. I don't know why the Leaf doesn't.
 
Rust-proofing is not required on a new car like the Leaf. In the paint shop at the factory, the bodies are electrostatically charged then fully dipped in primer that coats every nook and cranny of the body so they are unlikely to rust out. The Leaf also has a 5 year unlimited mileage rust proof warranty.
 
TurboFroggy said:
The Leaf also has a 5 year unlimited mileage rust proof warranty.
I assume this is like most cars, rust perforation, which will only cover panels literally punctured through with rust, but do nothing to surface rust, which can still be highly unsightly and manifest for years prior to a true perforation.
 
TurboFroggy said:
Rust-proofing is not required on a new car like the Leaf. In the paint shop at the factory, the bodies are electrostatically charged then fully dipped in primer that coats every nook and cranny of the body so they are unlikely to rust out. The Leaf also has a 5 year unlimited mileage rust proof warranty.

Here in Toledo, Ohio we have salt just like the OP. I too worry and wonder about Rust Proofing. I personally wouldn't leave it to chance that Nissan took action at the factory to prevent against rust. Around here with the road salt, humity, brine, snow, and slush from November to March, its always good to have extra rust-proofing. I myself would feel better knowing I have an extra barrier against the devil that is rust.

My buddy has an mechanic shop, and I've stopped by occasionally and all I see on the undercarriage is rust. What makes my especially concerned is that I just saw a Jeep Patriot (only 3 years old), with rust scattered about in certain areas on the undercarriage! Only 3 years old. Now that's a so-called "modern vehicle", that probably undergoes a similar production process as the Leaf (with the body being dipped an all).

The Pinches had a little rust, the Frame, Suspension parts, Muffler, Exhaust, Cat, and etc under there. Granted it was mostly surface rust, but that's always where it all starts. And only after 2-3 years. Driving around here you always see cars with rust. I bet I couldn't choose one car at random to inspect on the lift that didn't have surface rust on its undercarriage.

By the way, my Leaf has started to attain surface rust on the metal piece that holds the "Stack" up (under the hood). I made a thread about it here.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=19775" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's why I worry, because up here in the North, the climate will destroy your vehicle.

I wouldn't want to take a chance, only to put it up on a lift in 3 years to find rust taking hold. I put my Leaf up on a drive-on lift once soon after I got it, and I did notice Nissan sprayed a smattering of Undercoating on the undercarriage (but not a lot and certainly not thorough). I noticed its only about $450 to have my nearby shop rust-proof a vehicle (standard rate). I may stop in and ask about it.
 
electriccarfan said:
TurboFroggy said:
Rust-proofing is not required on a new car like the Leaf. In the paint shop at the factory, the bodies are electrostatically charged then fully dipped in primer that coats every nook and cranny of the body so they are unlikely to rust out. The Leaf also has a 5 year unlimited mileage rust proof warranty.

Here in Toledo, Ohio we have salt just like the OP. I too worry and wonder about Rust Proofing. I personally wouldn't leave it to chance that Nissan took action at the factory to prevent against rust. Around here with the road salt, humity, brine, snow, and slush from November to March, its always good to have extra rust-proofing. I myself would feel better knowing I have an extra barrier against the devil that is rust.

My buddy has an mechanic shop, and I've stopped by occasionally and all I see on the undercarriage is rust. What makes my especially concerned is that I just saw a Jeep Patriot (only 3 years old), with rust scattered about in certain areas on the undercarriage! Only 3 years old. Now that's a so-called "modern vehicle", that probably undergoes a similar production process as the Leaf (with the body being dipped an all).

The Pinches had a little rust, the Frame, Suspension parts, Muffler, Exhaust, Cat, and etc under there. Granted it was mostly surface rust, but that's always where it all starts. And only after 2-3 years. Driving around here you always see cars with rust. I bet I couldn't choose one car at random to inspect on the lift that didn't have surface rust on its undercarriage.

By the way, my Leaf has started to attain surface rust on the metal piece that holds the "Stack" up (under the hood). I made a thread about it here.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=19775" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's why I worry, because up here in the North, the climate will destroy your vehicle.

I wouldn't want to take a chance, only to put it up on a lift in 3 years to find rust taking hold. I put my Leaf up on a drive-on lift once soon after I got it, and I did notice Nissan sprayed a smattering of Undercoating on the undercarriage (but not a lot and certainly not thorough). I noticed its only about $450 to have my nearby shop rust-proof a vehicle (standard rate). I may stop in and ask about it.
How rusty was that undercarriage, though? A lot of metals on an even brand new car will get surface rust early on, but the particular bit of metal is so thick that it's still going to be many, many years before there is any damage or perforation or failure. All the trailer hitches I've installed for example will get rust on them in almost no time, but they are still many years from it mattering.

Anyway, I have a 2014 Altima that has now seen one winter and to my amusement--yes, amusement because it's leased--there is actually a speckle of rust on the rear hood where part of the silver trim is over it. I don't believe this is the result of road damage. I've rubbed it off and it reappears. It's genuine rust. I don't care because it can't be seen up close and it merely cements my aversion to buying it out at lease end. Undercarriage rust is no big deal, but body panel rust is. It becomes unsightly pretty quickly.

I still expect that the rear wheel well on these Leafs, lacking any kind of cover, is a prime spot for rust creation as road debris chips the paint.
 
Cleveland cars used to be a holy mess in the 70's after 2 or 3 years. Ziebart used to do big business. There was also "Mickey's", whose radio advertising hook was an old Italian man saying "I never have any problem. Take-a my car Mickey"!

But once the manufacturers got their act together with galvanic coatings and primer baths, things got a lot better. By the 90's, I was hearing recommendations to not apply aftermarket rustproofing because it could trap water and salt water and do more harm than good.
 
Rust proofing of the Nissan Leaf is undoubtedly a good idea. I recently discovered a lot of rust on my 2012 Leaf SL, and I think after reading this thread it is a general problem for Nissan cars. Toyota and Honda care much more about their cars rust protection. Here is a underbody of my Nissan. https://goo.gl/photos/QGsFPfDj7moo4R9T7. As you can see it is not protected by any rubberised coating, like Honda or Toyota are doing. Here is my 15 years old Honda Accord underbody https://goo.gl/photos/X1u9YqyF7LbHdSZZ7. All covered straight from the factory. See, the difference.
And here is again, LEAF underbody with rust starting to show up https://goo.gl/photos/nUWJQDUQYBTwGTBA9
And here are more:
https://goo.gl/photos/1Yn64oPawNL6RUFP9
https://goo.gl/photos/iyP9t1xoQKWzhqRR9
https://goo.gl/photos/U67Dcgnh1zQADvGD8
https://goo.gl/photos/xpz5DrEEktoya4Tn6
https://goo.gl/photos/wPDYRgvAwVszM8jm6
https://goo.gl/photos/zVWnXur9whEX3FHF7
Looking forward to learn from Nissan if this is covered by their warranty.
Also, looking to hear if treating the car now after this rust has already developed makes sense, or it is better to sell or trade it in.
This is a Japan built version of the LEAF, can somebody with USA built one take a look if the undercarriage looks unprotected at all, or USA versions are now have rubberised coating.
Generally I believe that all NISSAN cars are not properly rust protected. Here are some links with complaints:
Rogue:
http://www.carcomplaints.com/Nissan/Rogue/2013/body_paint/excessive_rusting.shtml
Xterra
http://www.carcomplaints.com/Nissan/Xterra/2012/body_paint/excessive_premature_rust.shtml
Other SUVs including Infiniti
http://www.torquenews.com/106/nissan-recalls-196000-suvs-over-rust-risks
Thanks in advance for the reply.
 
garmashe: Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.
 
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