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Nubo
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Re: MY2014 no more 80% charge option?

Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:38 am

I'd think the EPA wasn't motivated by the 80% charge setting per se, but rather Nissan's representation of it being something that the owner SHOULD use when possible to preserve the battery. I.e., "Long-Life Mode". When represented as being essential to proper care of the vehicle then EPA feels compelled to factor it.

Couldn't they simply rename it "80% charge mode" and represent it as the energy-saving feature it is? I.e., it enables regenerative braking at the start of the drive, and also the charging is more efficient. EPA likes that kind of thing, no? As long as it's represented as not being necessary to the vehicle I'd think EPA wouldn't have to consider it for range calculations.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

GaslessInSeattle
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Re: MY2014 no more 80% charge option?

Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:39 am

yeah sure, remove 80%, who cares when the charging style probably is not effecting long term degradation because Nissan's batteries aren't lasting long enough to see the effect! What a shame that they didn't figure this out before mass producing the car. Tesla nailed this, they simply sent out a software update that changed the charging options into a slider so the owner can choose anything between 50 and 100%, it's a beautiful solution, making it easy to do a 50% charge by default with top up via timer or even phone app depending on range needed. Lots of user preference flexibility. Nissan should just get it over with and develop a temperature management system like every other manufacturer, I'm sure with high production numbers now they could figure out how to make it economically. The experiment has, IMHO, failed so far.
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dm33
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Re: MY2014 no more 80% charge option?

Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:42 am

GaslessInSeattle wrote:yeah sure, remove 80%, who cares when the charging style probably is not effecting long term degradation because Nissan's batteries aren't lasting long enough to see the effect!
...
Nissan should just get it over with and develop a temperature management system like every other manufacturer, I'm sure with high production numbers now they could figure out how to make it economically. The experiment has, IMHO, failed so far.
"Hot" battery being released this year is claimed to have a good degradation curve even in hot climates. If true, maybe they can get away with not having a battery cooling system.

edatoakrun
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Re: MY2014 no more 80% charge option?

Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:16 pm

The "100%" charge setting has never allowed use of the full battery capacity for any LEAF.

Available battery capacity has always been limited by the LBC.

There is quite a bit of evidence, IMO, that the "100%" SOC available has never been a constant percentage of the full battery capacity either.

See:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... li=1#gid=3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BTW TickTock, why no updates of "100%", "from the wall" since last October?

So, IMO, it is entirely possible that when charging to "100%", the 2014 LBC may limit the available battery capacity differently than it has in previous years.

It could be that since Nissan decided to add an additional warrantee of capacity, it also found it prudent to further idiot-proof SOC management.

As to the "80%" SOC, and other SOC options below "100%", won't this be fairly easy for the after-market to address?

If I recall correctly, Ingineer (Phil) stated he could add variable SOC settings years ago.
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evnow
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Re: MY2014 no more 80% charge option?

Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:45 pm

One thing I noticed in '13 compared to '11 is that more regen is available at 100% (I'll confirm this today). Obviously Nissan is learning more about the battery as years go by.
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Valdemar
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Re: MY2014 no more 80% charge option?

Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:46 pm

Too bad it's gone. One use case 80% could be useful is when planning for a DCQC session that is billed per connected time as you can get more kwh for the same money when starting at lower SOC.

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EVDRIVER
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Re: MY2014 no more 80% charge option?

Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:51 pm

Valdemar wrote:Too bad it's gone. One use case 80% could be useful is when planning for a DCQC session that is billed per connected time as you can get more kwh for the same money when starting at lower SOC.

Or if you live at the top of a tall hill.

Valdemar
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Re: MY2014 no more 80% charge option?

Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:56 pm

In some situations you can work around the missing mode by setting the end of charge timer sufficiently later than your departure time. Not ideal, but can work.

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Nubo
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Re: MY2014 no more 80% charge option?

Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:46 pm

Valdemar wrote:In some situations you can work around the missing mode by setting the end of charge timer sufficiently later than your departure time. Not ideal, but can work.
Definitely not ideal. Not only does the timer fail to accurately predict end of charge (finishing early), it fails by different amounts depending on the beginning SOC.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

reeler
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Re: MY2014 no more 80% charge option?

Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:52 pm

dm33 wrote:"Hot" battery being released this year is claimed to have a good degradation curve even in hot climates. If true, maybe they can get away with not having a battery cooling system.
I will take simplicity over complexity any day. By avoiding a TMS, Nissan's design is simpler, more reliable and doesn't have the thermal run away issues. No Nissan LEAF fires yet like Tesla.

If the new battery is what they say, it is a home run for Nissan. The old battery was suitable for all climates, but desert ones. To have a chemistry that works across all climates, we will all be winners.
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