RegGuheert wrote:I never denied that. Let's remind everyone of the comment that you made to which I responded:GRA wrote:You wouldn't have a LEAF or any other production BEV to drive if it weren't for California's ZEV quotas. We both know this, so why does this need to be justified?Frankly, that statement, while *perhaps* true, is incredibly disingenuous. While CA may have only ever had "ZEV" quotas, those quotes were an overreach and they pulled back on them at the end of the 1990s and early 2000s. What that meant is that CA allowed manufacturers to meet their ZEV quotas by delivering HEVs instead. In other words, during that period, CARB's ZEV quotas were not actually ZEV quotas, but rather they were de facto HEV quotas.GRA wrote:...I feel that the elephant in the room that is missing in the HEV vs. BEV comparison is that AFAIA HEVs never had government quotas for sales.
So it is a real stretch to try to imply that the Prius and the LEAF somehow grew under a different regulatory environment. In fact it was nearly identical.
But of course you already knew that to be the case. And you've never purchased either an HEV or a BEV. Instead you come here every day to tell us why you have eschewed these technologies and try to tell us how poorly BEV sales are doing.
Reg, why did the EV-1exist? Why were the LEAF and Volt available here? Would either of these have occurred without California's quotas? No. And the near-term growth of ZEVs and PHEVs is still driven by quotas (such as China's and California's), and subsidies. We haven't yet reached the point where any of these AFVs can survive on their own, except at the luxury end of the market.
As to HEVs, they weren't viable here until they had a better product (the 2nd Gen. Prius),but what really drove sales was the jump in gas prices about the same time the Gen 2 arrived. Absent that, people would have been buying more pickups and SUVs, just as they are again. So neither tech's sales have been unaffected by major outside influences (and in California, the Prius also benefited from SO HOV stickers).
As to your final statement, I don't "come here every day" to tell people why I have eschewed these techs, but if someone asks or wonders why mainstream users aren't opting for them, I'll give my reasons. You're the one hung up on that. As to how poor BEV sales are, those are facts, no more, no less. I report sales good or bad, and look forward to the time when they are good without any need for quotas or subsidies. As it is, there's a chance that total U.S. PEV sales in 2018 may finally equal or exceed the annual sales of one of the top ten sales marques (not the top three, which are all pickups and sell north of 500k a year), which will be a minor milestone. Hopefully, in the the next five years or so a single PEV marque will be able to reach the top ten all by itself.