johnlocke
Posts: 178
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:27 pm

Using the Tesla 2170 batteries, you would need 3000 batteries for 60 KWH. That number of batteries would fit in the gen 1 battery case without problems arranged as 24 modules with 2 sets of terminals each to replicate the 48 modules in the original battery. The battery would gain a couple of hundred pounds in weight but wouldn't be any larger in volume. Since Tesla is actually a battery company, at some point Tesla is going to sell their batteries to any OEM who can order enough at one time meet their minimum. At $100/KWH that's about $6000 for the batteries alone but probably less than $10K for a rebuilt 60KWH battery. If you could fool the BMS into thinking that it is still looking at Nissan modules it could be substantially less. Panasonic is also building 2170 batteries but they don't have as high an energy density and they aren't set up on the gigafactory model.
2016 SV
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

trangen1
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:54 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 015577

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:47 pm

Here's my story, I'm in Los Angeles, CA.

So last January 2017, I bought my 2012 Nissan Leaf, it came with the White Carpool HOV lane sticker. Which was my motivation. On a good day it would charge and only show 68-65 miles of range. But actual driving part city and party Freeway I could only get about 35-40 miles. I only had 45,000 miles on it at the time.
The battery health showed 7 bars. (5 white and 2 red)

So In January 20, 2017 (or there abouts) I took my 2012 Leaf to the dealer and they uploaded new software. Now the Battery health showed 9 bars, 7 white and 2 red. LOL
I thought now that's a scam. They said I don't qualify any more for a new Battery. I was pissed.
Meanwhile, as the Crow Flies I work 14.5 miles from my house. Lets round off and say 15 miles. and including pickup up and dropping off my kids from school add 2 more miles. So round trip and pickup kids from school 32 miles and the battery was almost depleted. This was worse in the Winter time if I had the heater on. Yes, it does get cold in the winter in LA and I'm not going to let my kids get sick because I won't turn on the heater. Some times I would have to charge it twice in 1 day to make sure I could make it 35 miles round trip and get stranded with my kids on the freeway. I charged it at work and then charged it when I got home.

Nissan never offered me any "Goodwill" program. They tried to cheat me. I had to threaten them with a Lawsuit for them to give me a new battery. I did some research and found that in LA Nissan was sued in a Class Action lawsuit and they settled out-of-court and promised to fix peoples LEAFS with defective batteries if it was still under warranty.
Apparently the severe HEAT in California and Arizona degraded the batteries early. One of the Plaintiffs was a Judge.

What happened is when Tesla, made the first "S" model, they gave away all their patents to promote EV Technology. But left it to each manufacturer to alter, deviate or modify that technology to their needs.

Well on Tesla's they used "Liquid Cooling" to cool Tesla S batteries. Toyota used forced Air cooling with a Fan in their Prius.

Nissan didn't use any cooling at all. They just let "ambient" temperature to dissipate the heat. "MISTAKE"; "BIG MISTAKE". That's what caused early depletion and malfunction of their batteries. Especially in the severe heat of states like Arizona and California summers.

Long story short, I have a J.D. Law degree so I wrote up and "Pleading aka Complaint" I was ready to file Criminal and Civil complaints vs. Nissan (I was not bluffing, I had already made contact with the FBI, and some California Agencies and Consumer Affairs.
I thought what they did uploading new code was tantamount to "fraud". I served them (Nissan Notice) at their Tennessee HQ, which is their North American HQ, their Japan HQ, and another location I can't remember. I must have served about 8 people.

Shortly there after their (Nissan Attorney Counsel) contacted me and said bring in my 2012 Leaf and Nissan would give me a new Battery. That was in June 8th, 2017.

They did some paper work and gave me my Leaf back after a week and said, "we have to wait for the Battery to arrive." I waited 3 months Later in September I wrote the Nissan Attorney Counsel and said, "can you expedite things" "it's been a 3 month wait". His reply he feigned shock, "they haven't fixed it yet"??? I said "NO"!!!

So a few days later the Dealer said bring the Leaf in, I did and left it with them for about 1 month and 1 week, and the Battery finally arrived. I just got it back 2 weeks ago on Friday October 27, 2017. So now on a full charge the battery in
"Drive" shows 110, and "Eco shows 118" miles of range.

It's been a learning lesson.

I drive about 70 mph when the freeway moves. And at that speed the battery gets depleted Fast.
And I started with a FULL FRESH CHARGE of 110 Range the other day; I drove 70 mph for 35 miles. And the Range showed 48 miles left.
These LEAF's are not designed for American Freeways and American freeway driving. I'm convinced they are and were designed for Japan with their small streets and slower driving, NOT for American roads and freeways.

Anyway Now I can drive about 2-3 days before I need to re-charge. I usually charge at the end of the 2nd day.

I'll keep driving it like this until I get my Tesla 3 next year. The Tesla 3 back log is 500,000 now I think.

Anyway I found out when they gave me a new battery, they also upgraded the battery to the 2016-2017 35 kW Battery good for 110 miles range (or so the display says, you won't get that range on the freeway at 65 mph).
To answer the other person, the 2016-2017 battery WILL FIT in the earlier models. Nissan only has to install a connector adapter which they made for this.
So, 2011-2015's had the 25 kW batteries good for 70-80 miles range.

The 2nd Gen Leaf has the 40 kW battery which is supposedly good for 150 miles range (but again based on my experience, not at 65 mph speed).
and next summer 2018 Nissan LEAF will offer and 60 kW battery good for 210 range.

That said, Nissan supposedly put a coating on the batteries (2016-2017 model Leafs) to make them more resistant to heat and battery fade.
They still didn't engineer or install a cooling system for the batteries. UNBELIEVABLE!!! What Bad Engineering.
I wonder if they'll do that for the 60 kW batteries. If Nissan doesn't engineer Battery cooling for Battery Longevity I'm not getting a 2018.

I actually like my 2012 LEAF. It's small nimble relatively fast in "Drive mode". My wife likes it to, She prefers the LEAF for local driving rather than her big Mercedes-Benz ML250 Bluetec Diesel for easier parking and working traffic.

But at this point I need the higher Range and it looks like the Tesla 3 with the Bigger 310 range battery and AWD - Dual motor is for me. Even at $45K I'm okay with that.

I read in one report a Tesla S after 5 years and over 100,000 miles still retained 98% of it's battery charge. Probably Thanks to the "Battery Liquid Cooling System).

In downtown LA and near where I live I've got it mapped out, I haven't paid for Electricity to charge my LEAF for commuting since February 2017 of this year. At my work downtown LA near my work there are about 20 (Free Electricity) Charging stations provided by LA DWP Dept. of Water and Power. and near my house near by is Edison they have 12 free electricity charging stations. First some first serve. The city next to me Rosemead is install 4 free electricity charging stations in 2018. And also nearby CARB, The State of California (CARB - CA Air Resources board) has 4 free charging stations also. I've got the network of No-Charge stations all mapped out. IT'S GREAT!!!!
Now all I need is a reasonably priced EV that can go 200+ miles on a charged. And that's going to be the Tesla 3 (220 miles range 70 kW or 310 miles range 80 kw) or the Nissan LEAF with the 60 kW battery as long as Nissan Engineers Cooling into that battery.

lorenfb
Posts: 1405
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:30 pm

trangen1 wrote:So now on a full charge the battery in "Drive" shows 110, and "Eco shows 118" miles of range.

Anyway I found out when they gave me a new battery, they also upgraded the battery to the 2016-2017 35 kW Battery good for 110 miles range (or so the display says, you won't get that range on the freeway at 65 mph).
To answer the other person, the 2016-2017 battery WILL FIT in the earlier models. Nissan only has to install a connector adapter which they made for this.


Interesting! If I remember correctly, someone on this forum indicated that after a discussion with a Nissan dealer tech about 10 months ago.
Subsequently, that someone's credibility became suspect to many. Hopefully, other sources for this will corroborate it.

User avatar
Nubo
Posts: 4498
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 11:01 am
Delivery Date: 31 Oct 2014
Location: Vallejo, CA

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:58 pm

trangen1 wrote:...What happened is when Tesla, made the first "S" model, they gave away all their patents to promote EV Technology. But left it to each manufacturer to alter, deviate or modify that technology to their needs

Are you suggesting that Nissan LEAF is based on Tesla patents?
... I had already made contact with the FBI...


Next time try the CIA. :lol:
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

trangen1
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:54 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 015577

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:38 pm

to all the Non-Believers here you go.

https://www.wired.com/2014/06/tesla-jus ... mpetitors/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/investor/2 ... ada5113ea8

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail ... 123062b8c8

if you want let me take a picture of my dash and upload
after my 2012 Leaf with the new 2017 upgraded battery. In Eco mode it shows 118, in drive mode it shows 108, 109, 110, it's not consistent.

User avatar
OrientExpress
Forum Supporter
Posts: 1064
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:47 pm

When my 2011 LEAF was new it would give the same outlandish range estimates too. I think you have just a 24kW battery.
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
46,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

trangen1
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:54 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 015577

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:00 pm

No let me get the receipt from the Dealer I'll scan it in and upload it for you Non-Believers. They (Nissan Attorney Counsel) even told me. and it's also part of the Class Action Lawsuit out-of-court settlement terms.

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 7254
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:03 pm

Trangen1, I haven’t read most of your post but you’ve repeatedly used the wrong units. Battery capacity is measured in kWh, not “KW”.

Please see viewtopic.php?p=509385#p509385.

GOM values don’t matter to us. Receipt with part numbers would be useful. Also, screenshots from certain screens in Leaf Spy would help.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

trangen1
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:54 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 015577

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:19 pm

KiloWatts is abbreviated Littke k, and big W, there is no H.

I may have typed fast and left typos, this doesnt' have spell check; kW not kWH

SageBrush
Posts: 1481
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:36 pm

trangen1 wrote:KiloWatts is abbreviated Littke k, and big W, there is no H.

I may have typed fast and left typos, this doesnt' have spell check; kW not kWH

You are not understanding.
Cwerdna is pointing out your confusion between a rate (kW) and an amount (kWh)

I'm glad you have a replacement battery but your attempt to appear informed is going *really* badly. Are you trolling for customers ? Your post reminded me of a famous late night informercial of a fellow who hocked get rich schemes who showed himself enjoying his boat and a gaggle of bimbos along for the ride.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

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