DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 11792
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:29 pm

SageBrush wrote:
JPWhite wrote:IMHO The LEAF brand is tarnished in the US and Nissan should launch their next EV with a new name.

I cannot imagine anybody disputing this who is thinking of spending their own money. A new technology is likely needed too. And a much more persuasive warranty.

I read this forum by searching for new posts and new threads. The last (and I think only) time I read of an owner with a new car was DaveInOly. All the other LEAF purchase threads have been about used cars. I'm not denigrating used LEAF buyers (after all, I am one of them,) but without people willing to buy new cars this model is dying and no replacement is on the horizon.

Does Nissan care ? By their actions, I think not.


actually I am seeing a ton of new cars but then again, Nissan has a near 50% off sale. they did sell nearly 2,000 last month which is double the monthly average if not counting Nov/Dec
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 18,297 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 100.00% kwh 28.1 QCs 165, L2's 190
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

lorenfb
Posts: 1178
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:32 pm

JPWhite wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:I doubt Nissan is very concerned about losing future sale to those few 2011 to (early) 2013 LEAF owners who still confuse inaccurate LBC-indicated battery capacity loss (gid and capacity bar loss) with actual battery capacity loss.


If your assertion is correct regarding Nissan not being concerned about losing early adopters, then more fool them.

The absolute number of customers, approx 20,000 isn't that significant in as much as losing 20,000 customers is not the end of the world for Nissan. However these 20,000 customers tend to be outspoken about their LEAF's (and other EV's) and maintain blogs and engage in social media. The impact of these owners have a significant impact on the next wave of customers, who will research EV's online and come across blogs and dialog about the LEAF. The potential purchaser will ask for input from anyone they know who has previously owned an EV to get real world experience and advice.

I enjoy the oft acerbic commentary from Jack Rickard. During the early days of the LEAF battery durability concerns Jack simply could not believe Nissan's take it or leave it approach to the issue. The quote that sticks out in my mind is that given that there were so few LEAF owners Nissan should be "tucking them into bed at night" rather than ignoring them. A little TLC back then would have gone a long way to avert brand damage. Rickard referred to Nissan's approach as 'corporate Harikiri'. I couldn't agree with him more.

IMHO The LEAF brand is tarnished in the US and Nissan should launch their next EV with a new name.


So you hold Nissan in such high disdain that you decided to spend $6K on a new 24kWh battery replacement on 12/3/16? O.K.

Also, this very recent replacement acknowledgment is insightful as to why your highly negative view to the prospect
that Nissan might be doing customer-pay 30kWh replacements at about the same cost of a 24kWh. Did you even ask?
If not, you were obviously aware (hopefully) of the 30kWh battery being used in the existing chassis?

lorenfb
Posts: 1178
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:37 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
JPWhite wrote:IMHO The LEAF brand is tarnished in the US and Nissan should launch their next EV with a new name.

I cannot imagine anybody disputing this who is thinking of spending their own money. A new technology is likely needed too. And a much more persuasive warranty.

I read this forum by searching for new posts and new threads. The last (and I think only) time I read of an owner with a new car was DaveInOly. All the other LEAF purchase threads have been about used cars. I'm not denigrating used LEAF buyers (after all, I am one of them,) but without people willing to buy new cars this model is dying and no replacement is on the horizon.

Does Nissan care ? By their actions, I think not.


actually I am seeing a ton of new cars but then again, Nissan has a near 50% off sale. they did sell nearly 2,000 last month which is double the monthly average if not counting Nov/Dec


That's right, i.e. InsideEvs indicated that 14K Leafs were sold in the U.S. in 2016. Although that number is significantly
off from previous years.

SageBrush
Posts: 842
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:44 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
JPWhite wrote:IMHO The LEAF brand is tarnished in the US and Nissan should launch their next EV with a new name.

I cannot imagine anybody disputing this who is thinking of spending their own money. A new technology is likely needed too. And a much more persuasive warranty.

I read this forum by searching for new posts and new threads. The last (and I think only) time I read of an owner with a new car was DaveInOly. All the other LEAF purchase threads have been about used cars. I'm not denigrating used LEAF buyers (after all, I am one of them,) but without people willing to buy new cars this model is dying and no replacement is on the horizon.

Does Nissan care ? By their actions, I think not.


actually I am seeing a ton of new cars but then again, Nissan has a near 50% off sale. they did sell nearly 2,000 last month which is double the monthly average if not counting Nov/Dec
Yep.

From my POV, the LEAF has degraded into a compliance car for NIssan through corporate neglect.
Last edited by SageBrush on Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 11792
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:45 pm

lorenfb wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
SageBrush wrote:I cannot imagine anybody disputing this who is thinking of spending their own money. A new technology is likely needed too. And a much more persuasive warranty.

I read this forum by searching for new posts and new threads. The last (and I think only) time I read of an owner with a new car was DaveInOly. All the other LEAF purchase threads have been about used cars. I'm not denigrating used LEAF buyers (after all, I am one of them,) but without people willing to buy new cars this model is dying and no replacement is on the horizon.

Does Nissan care ? By their actions, I think not.


actually I am seeing a ton of new cars but then again, Nissan has a near 50% off sale. they did sell nearly 2,000 last month which is double the monthly average if not counting Nov/Dec


That's right, i.e. InsideEvs indicated that 14K Leafs were sold in the U.S. in 2016. Although that number is significantly
off from previous years.


but over 3500 in the last 2 months.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 18,297 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 100.00% kwh 28.1 QCs 165, L2's 190
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

lorenfb
Posts: 1178
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:58 pm

SageBrush wrote:Yep.

From my POV, the LEAF has degraded into a compliance car for NIssan through corporate neglect.


Do I interpret that correctly, i.e. you bought a POV Leaf but have a negative view of Nissan? If that's correct,
tell us someone "forced you" to buy one.

SageBrush
Posts: 842
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:38 pm

lorenfb wrote:
SageBrush wrote:Yep.

From my POV, the LEAF has degraded into a compliance car for NIssan through corporate neglect.


Do I interpret that correctly, i.e. you bought a POV Leaf but have a negative view of Nissan? If that's correct,
tell us someone "forced you" to buy one.
What is a POV LEAF ?

To answer your presumed question while ignoring the baiting, I bought my used LEAF based on a calculation of value, meaning expected utility for price paid. If that is not explicit enough, try this: the car was so cheap I accept the risks inherent in dealing with a company that is going to offer the least legally mandated customer support it can get away with, for a car that has suspect battery technology. I mitigate my gamble by 1. buying a car that has excellent LEAFSpy results; 2. placing it into a service that is not demanding and tolerant of degradation; and 3. willingness to learn enough about the car to pamper and maintain it for a hopefully long life. I expect the car to work great for my uses and to enjoy ownership, warts and all.

Technology quality is a shade of grey and being a fanboy of a corporation is not a required initiation rite for purchase. I also represent the flip side of this, by the way: I AM a strong advocate of all things Tesla and Elon Musk but I have never given serious consideration to buying a Model S or Model X and time will tell if I exercise my Model 3 reservation.

Sorry to confuse you -- enthusiasts tend to have a myopic view. Your angst reminds me of football fans with their irrational tribal loves, hatreds, and biases.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

lorenfb
Posts: 1178
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:49 pm

SageBrush wrote:
lorenfb wrote:
SageBrush wrote:Yep.

From my POV, the LEAF has degraded into a compliance car for NIssan through corporate neglect.


Do I interpret that correctly, i.e. you bought a POV Leaf but have a negative view of Nissan? If that's correct,
tell us someone "forced you" to buy one.
What is a POV LEAF ?

To answer your presumed question while ignoring the baiting, I bought my used LEAF based on a calculation of value, meaning expected utility for price paid. If that is not explicit enough, try this: the car was so cheap I accept the risks inherent in dealing with a company that is going to offer the least legally mandated customer support it can get away with, for a car that has suspect battery technology. I mitigate my gamble by 1. buying a car that has excellent LEAFSpy results; 2. placing it into a service that is not demanding and tolerant of degradation; and 3. willingness to learn enough about the car to pamper and maintain it for a hopefully long life. I expect the car to work great for my uses and to enjoy ownership, warts and all.

Technology quality is a shade of grey and being a fanboy of a corporation is not a required initiation rite for purchase. I also represent the flip side of this, by the way: I AM a strong advocate of all things Tesla and Elon Musk but I have never given serious consideration to buying a Model S or Model X and time will tell if I exercise my Model 3 reservation.

Sorry to confuse you -- enthusiasts tend to have a myopic view. Your angst reminds me of football fans with their irrational tribal loves, hatreds, and biases.


The term used in finance is Net Present Value (NPV), i.e. cost of an asset over time, assuming a zero salvage
value in this case, at an assumed cost of capital interest rate. Your basis for your NPV (POV) is not quantifiable.
Since your #2 & #3 are highly subjective, they hardly mitigate one's view of the potential negative aspects
of a purchase. How about using the term, YGV (your guesstimate of value). Most rational buyers when
they have a negative view of the company, don't buy its products.

So you have concluded based on POV (your term) that the Leaf is just a compliance car for Nissan, right?
And what would you call the 20+ EVs on the InsideEVs 2016 sales list with less sales volumes than the Leaf?
Your conclusion is a non sequitar. Anything of significance to contribute to this thread?

sendler2112
Posts: 213
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:05 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Jan 2016
Location: Syracuse, NY USA

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:20 pm

Ahhh. Nice dissertation... But POV is short for point of view.

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drees
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Location: San Diego

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:46 pm

lorenfb wrote:Most rational buyers when
they have a negative view of the company, don't buy its products.

You miss the point. Many early adopters are able to make rational decisions based on all available data. I agree with Sagebrush's assessment that a used LEAF has excellent value if one realizes it's shortcomings. The value is good enough that one can consider a used LEAF despite Nissan's attitude towards early adopters and a flagship vehicle.
lorenfb wrote:So you have concluded based on POV (your term) that the Leaf is just a compliance car for Nissan, right?
And what would you call the 20+ EVs on the InsideEVs 2016 sales list with less sales volumes than the Leaf?

All compliance cars.
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