lorenfb
Posts: 1144
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
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Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Thu May 18, 2017 10:06 pm

tattoogunman wrote:I'm saying these cars are overpriced and they need to be priced much better than they are now to become more marketable to the masses.


Really? So you suggest that OEMs re-price their BEVs to be loss-leaders like Tesla vehicles, right?
Please avoid marketing as a vocation.

DaveinOlyWA
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Leaf Number: 314199
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Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Sat May 20, 2017 7:52 am

Nissan IS selling their LEAFs in the upper teens. Sure its thru a combination of discounts and fed credits but the result is still the same. This is no different than any other manufacturer providing discounts, right?

There is nothing wrong with this and it is EXACTLY this process that has been used for decades to sell cars.

Enter LEAF II; nearly the same price (We all know only a token price hike from MY to MY is acceptable) but much shinier options which adds a few K to the sticker. But again, discounts, etc will bring the car to market value. At least Nissan understands this.

Chevy OTOH is gambling that 60 kwh will blind consumers into making that leap and for those who have the tax liability, its a very good option to consider but that leaves a HUGE niche of customers unable to get the full $7500 out in the cold and every day, the Chevy advantage shrinks. So is Chevy pulling it off? Hard to say since the market is still small but they are already in most of the EV hotbeds and what is the results? I have to say I see minimal excitement in WA.

To add to that; Chevy is pocketing the fed credit for consumers on leases. IOW, double dipping.

So the option faced is take a leap of faith and buy Version 1.0 at premium prices

or not.

Didn't do it with LEAF 1.0 and not gonna start now.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 16,015 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 81.90, Hx; 98.25% kwh 28.1 QCs 141, L2's 170
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tattoogunman
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:17 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jun 2016
Location: Plano, Texas

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Tue May 23, 2017 7:03 am

lorenfb wrote:
tattoogunman wrote:I'm saying these cars are overpriced and they need to be priced much better than they are now to become more marketable to the masses.


Really? So you suggest that OEMs re-price their BEVs to be loss-leaders like Tesla vehicles, right?
Please avoid marketing as a vocation.


I'm saying that if EVs are to be adopted en masse, they need to be priced better than they are now. Right now, these cars are too expensive for "the masses" that everyone keeps talking about since they all range from the $30K to over $40K to get into one and that's too much money for the average person. The average salary in the U.S. right now, for someone with a four year degree, is hovering around $45K a year. Median household income in the U.S. is hovering around $55K per year - those are the masses and those people cannot afford to spend $30K to $42K on a car.

If you disagree, that's fine - everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I'm poor and cannot afford the current crop of EVs and there are plenty of people in my position who would love to go a bit greener and simply cannot do so because we're priced out of the market. Until these cars get cheaper, they are going to remain a niche market product.

tattoogunman
Posts: 91
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Location: Plano, Texas

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Tue May 23, 2017 7:16 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:Nissan IS selling their LEAFs in the upper teens. Sure its thru a combination of discounts and fed credits but the result is still the same. This is no different than any other manufacturer providing discounts, right?

There is nothing wrong with this and it is EXACTLY this process that has been used for decades to sell cars.

Enter LEAF II; nearly the same price (We all know only a token price hike from MY to MY is acceptable) but much shinier options which adds a few K to the sticker. But again, discounts, etc will bring the car to market value. At least Nissan understands this.

Chevy OTOH is gambling that 60 kwh will blind consumers into making that leap and for those who have the tax liability, its a very good option to consider but that leaves a HUGE niche of customers unable to get the full $7500 out in the cold and every day, the Chevy advantage shrinks. So is Chevy pulling it off? Hard to say since the market is still small but they are already in most of the EV hotbeds and what is the results? I have to say I see minimal excitement in WA.

To add to that; Chevy is pocketing the fed credit for consumers on leases. IOW, double dipping.

So the option faced is take a leap of faith and buy Version 1.0 at premium prices

or not.

Didn't do it with LEAF 1.0 and not gonna start now.


I'm not a fan of the credits because you shouldn't need that as an excuse to buy one of these cars and that's assuming you are entitled on getting the credit back in the first place. Not ever state has incentives either, so that also should not be an excuse to buy one. These credits would not be needed if they cars were priced better to begin with. A loaded Bolt will set you back over $42,000 and that's just crazy.

People are still leary of this technology, for a variety of reasons, and that's not going to be offset by extremely high purchase prices. It's like the Volt - it has Chevy's highest customer satisfaction ever recorded, has received any number of automotive awards, top crash test results, etc. and they still can't move enough of them. The Bolt seems to be going the same way - already receiving awards and accolades, but not too many sales (the fact it isn't available in all states yet isn't helping that).

It's hard to convince someone to buy an electric for a premium price when they can buy an ICE car sitting next to it, loaded to the gills with all the options, at a lower price.

I want an EV, but they are simply too expensive for poor blokes like me. Like I said above - purely my opinion and everyone is entitled to theirs :)

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Marktm
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Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Tue May 23, 2017 8:52 am

tattoogunman wrote:I'm not a fan of the credits because you shouldn't need that as an excuse to buy one of these cars and that's assuming you are entitled on getting the credit back in the first place. Not ever state has incentives either, so that also should not be an excuse to buy one. These credits would not be needed if they cars were priced better to begin with. A loaded Bolt will set you back over $42,000 and that's just crazy.

People are still leary of this technology, for a variety of reasons, and that's not going to be offset by extremely high purchase prices. It's like the Volt - it has Chevy's highest customer satisfaction ever recorded, has received any number of automotive awards, top crash test results, etc. and they still can't move enough of them. The Bolt seems to be going the same way - already receiving awards and accolades, but not too many sales (the fact it isn't available in all states yet isn't helping that).

It's hard to convince someone to buy an electric for a premium price when they can buy an ICE car sitting next to it, loaded to the gills with all the options, at a lower price.

I want an EV, but they are simply too expensive for poor blokes like me. Like I said above - purely my opinion and everyone is entitled to theirs :)


I agree with much of your reasoning - here in Texas, we generally get only the Fed credits - maybe a credit for a charger :roll: .

However - I've found several used Leafs that will qualify for a free battery replacement - or had the battery recently replaced - in the range of $6000 to $9000. I bought one such Leaf and I am absolutely sold on this car! Most were lease deals and kept in top condition (which is easy to do with a little care). If you can live with a 65 to 85 mile range vehicle, and want to save $$$'s on fuel costs, find the right one and give it a try!
2012 Leaf SL; 34,000 miles. 12 bars - Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.
4000 watts Grid-tied solar. 3000 watts (level II) off-grid solar Leaf charging capable.

lorenfb
Posts: 1144
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Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Tue May 23, 2017 8:49 pm

tattoogunman wrote:I'm not a fan of the credits because you shouldn't need that as an excuse to buy one of these cars and that's assuming you are entitled on getting the credit back in the first place. Not ever state has incentives either, so that also should not be an excuse to buy one. These credits would not be needed if they cars were priced better to begin with. A loaded Bolt will set you back over $42,000 and that's just crazy.

People are still leary of this technology, for a variety of reasons, and that's not going to be offset by extremely high purchase prices. It's like the Volt - it has Chevy's highest customer satisfaction ever recorded, has received any number of automotive awards, top crash test results, etc. and they still can't move enough of them. The Bolt seems to be going the same way - already receiving awards and accolades, but not too many sales (the fact it isn't available in all states yet isn't helping that).

It's hard to convince someone to buy an electric for a premium price when they can buy an ICE car sitting next to it, loaded to the gills with all the options, at a lower price.

I want an EV, but they are simply too expensive for poor blokes like me. Like I said above - purely my opinion and everyone is entitled to theirs :)


Consider forwarding your insightful marketing perspective on EVs to Mary Barra (CEO of GM - $22M '16 salary)
and suggest that both the Bolt & Volt product lines run at loss until the typical consumer becomes financially
indifferent to buying an ICEV or an EV. GM employees could be asked to take pay-cuts to ameliorate
the overall loss. The stock price will surely tumble, but shareholders are generally wealthy anyway, right?
Again, it's all in an effort to facilitate the transition to EVs, i.e. a very "noble cause".

Also, suggest by immediately reducing Mary Barra's salary to about just $2M per year versus $22M she could
then reduce Volt & Bolt prices in the near term by $20K each, i.e. GM would easily "move" about 1K units of
which you would be the first in line (It was your revolutionary idea).

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davewill
Posts: 4751
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:04 pm
Location: San Diego, CA, US

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Wed May 24, 2017 10:34 am

lorenfb wrote:Consider forwarding your insightful marketing perspective on EVs to Mary Barra (CEO of GM - $22M '16 salary)
and suggest that both the Bolt & Volt product lines run at loss until the typical consumer becomes financially
indifferent to buying an ICEV or an EV. GM employees could be asked to take pay-cuts to ameliorate
the overall loss. The stock price will surely tumble, but shareholders are generally wealthy anyway, right?
Again, it's all in an effort to facilitate the transition to EVs, i.e. a very "noble cause".

Also, suggest by immediately reducing Mary Barra's salary to about just $2M per year versus $22M she could
then reduce Volt & Bolt prices in the near term by $20K each, i.e. GM would easily "move" about 1K units of
which you would be the first in line (It was your revolutionary idea).

You are being purposely obtuse. He is not saying that the current makers should immediately lower prices, but that efforts to lower prices in the future are required for ultimate success. He's right...of course this isn't the thread for it.
2014 Rav4 EV, Blizzard Pearl White
2011 LEAF SL w/QC, Blue Ocean, returned at end of lease

lorenfb
Posts: 1144
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
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Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Wed May 24, 2017 7:56 pm

davewill wrote:He is not saying that the current makers should immediately lower prices, but that efforts to lower prices in the future are required for ultimate success. He's right...of course this isn't the thread for it.


Intuitively, anyone with a very basic understanding of economics, e.g. middle school, knows that lower prices expands
the market for goods & services! Or, I guess we're back to the theory that ICEV OEMs are purposely keeping EVs
prices high and are in collusion with the oil companies, right? Most vehicle OEMs operate in an elastic market
where lower prices result in a higher volume. If OEMs could operate profitably at a lower price where the
volume delta would result in a net gain, they would.

And how about those smartphone producers that price their product where many cell phone users are "forced"
to buy flip-phones. Surely, those smartphone producers need to "adjust" their product prices to allow less
well-off consumers, e.g. struggling college students, to afford smartphones.

Isn't terrible how capitalistic economics "rations" goods and services and sets prices?

fotajoye
Posts: 244
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:18 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 669
Location: Northern California

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Wed May 24, 2017 8:36 pm

lorenfb wrote:
davewill wrote:He is not saying that the current makers should immediately lower prices, but that efforts to lower prices in the future are required for ultimate success. He's right...of course this isn't the thread for it.


Intuitively, anyone with a very basic understanding of economics, e.g. middle school, knows that lower prices expands
the market for goods & services! Or, I guess we're back to the theory that ICEV OEMs are purposely keeping EVs
prices high and are in collusion with the oil companies, right? Most vehicle OEMs operate in an elastic market
where lower prices result in a higher volume. If OEMs could operate profitably at a lower price where the
volume delta would result in a net gain, they would.

And how about those smartphone producers that price their product where many cell phone users are "forced"
to buy flip-phones. Surely, those smartphone producers need to "adjust" their product prices to allow less
well-off consumers, e.g. struggling college students, to afford smartphones.

Isn't terrible how capitalistic economics "rations" goods and services and sets prices?


Guys: Please get back on the topic of Information about Leaf batteries...TNX

lorenfb
Posts: 1144
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
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Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Thu May 25, 2017 8:51 am

fotajoye wrote:Guys: Please get back on the topic of Information about Leaf batteries...TNX


Yes, back on topic!

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