Bufordleaf
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Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Sun May 28, 2017 5:03 am

Now that we're back on topic, I have been wondering about the Nissan battery replacement program. It seems Brockman (I think that's his name) announced the original $5500 plus install price for replacement batteries almost 3 years ago now. Surely with battery costs falling every year that number needs to be adjusted at this point, right? If we assume a 10% drop in costs per year (which may be aggressive, but let's go with it for now) that would bring the retail price of the 24 kWh pack to $4k plus install now. Some quick math would lead to a retail price on a 30 kWh pack of $5k plus install, which of course then leads us back to the question of WHEN (not if) Nissan will finally agree to sell 30 kWh replacement packs to owners of 2011 thru 2016 24 kWh Leafs.

I don't need one yet, my 2015 still shows 91% SOH and is running fine. But 5 years from now perhaps I will want one. And by then I'm hopeful the costs will have come down to the point that Nissan will sell a 30 kWh replacement pack to me for around $3k plus install. Even if they need to charge another $200 or so to reprogram the BMS to communicate with a different pack capacity, it would be worth it to extend the life of my Leaf and get a bump in range.

Any thoughts on this? Am I just dreaming or might Nissan do this at some point? Mr. Brockman, any comment from Nissan?
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fotajoye
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Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Sun May 28, 2017 11:22 am

Bufordleaf wrote:Now that we're back on topic, I have been wondering about the Nissan battery replacement program. It seems Brockman (I think that's his name) announced the original $5500 plus install price for replacement batteries almost 3 years ago now. Surely with battery costs falling every year that number needs to be adjusted at this point, right? If we assume a 10% drop in costs per year (which may be aggressive, but let's go with it for now) that would bring the retail price of the 24 kWh pack to $4k plus install now. Some quick math would lead to a retail price on a 30 kWh pack of $5k plus install, which of course then leads us back to the question of WHEN (not if) Nissan will finally agree to sell 30 kWh replacement packs to owners of 2011 thru 2016 24 kWh Leafs.

I don't need one yet, my 2015 still shows 91% SOH and is running fine. But 5 years from now perhaps I will want one. And by then I'm hopeful the costs will have come down to the point that Nissan will sell a 30 kWh replacement pack to me for around $3k plus install. Even if they need to charge another $200 or so to reprogram the BMS to communicate with a different pack capacity, it would be worth it to extend the life of my Leaf and get a bump in range.

Any thoughts on this? Am I just dreaming or might Nissan do this at some point? Mr. Brockman, any comment from Nissan?

As an EV, the Leaf has a long life ahead, unlike ICEVs that suffer from constant maintenance costs and major mechanical breakdowns. Nissan hasn't figured that out yet and are still creating policy based on producing obsolete gassers.

Let's hope there is a good aftermarket battery pack provider for these cars; there is nothing worse than when a dealer has you locked in. has control of your car and can rob you legally. Right now that is the case with Nissan and the Leaf. You are in effect at their mercy. The $6-$7k price for the same range replacement battery added to the blue book value of a used Leaf takes the car out of consideration for many people. In order to make the used Leaf more attractive either reduce the cost of a replacement battery or offer more range for the same cost. Even a 30 kWh replacement battery would be a step up.

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JPWhite
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Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Sun May 28, 2017 4:35 pm

Bufordleaf wrote:Now that we're back on topic, I have been wondering about the Nissan battery replacement program. It seems Brockman (I think that's his name) announced the original $5500 plus install price for replacement batteries almost 3 years ago now. Surely with battery costs falling every year that number needs to be adjusted at this point, right? If we assume a 10% drop in costs per year (which may be aggressive, but let's go with it for now) that would bring the retail price of the 24 kWh pack to $4k plus install now. Some quick math would lead to a retail price on a 30 kWh pack of $5k plus install, which of course then leads us back to the question of WHEN (not if) Nissan will finally agree to sell 30 kWh replacement packs to owners of 2011 thru 2016 24 kWh Leafs.

I don't need one yet, my 2015 still shows 91% SOH and is running fine. But 5 years from now perhaps I will want one. And by then I'm hopeful the costs will have come down to the point that Nissan will sell a 30 kWh replacement pack to me for around $3k plus install. Even if they need to charge another $200 or so to reprogram the BMS to communicate with a different pack capacity, it would be worth it to extend the life of my Leaf and get a bump in range.

Any thoughts on this? Am I just dreaming or might Nissan do this at some point? Mr. Brockman, any comment from Nissan?


When Nissan announced the replacement program, I believe they were probably losing money on the battery. As you point out battery costs have come down so Nissan may now be making money on the battery. Are they making as much money in percentage terms on the battery compared to say a cabin air filter? I doubt it.

Nissan are in the final stages of selling off their interest in AESC. Who knows why they are doing this, but it could be they couldn't achieve the same savings as other battery manufacturers and/or make a world class battery that lasts 10+ years. Tesla have announced their latest battery going into the Model 3 should last 20 years. Nissan have thrown in the towel on their own battery tech, future cost savings are unlikely.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the price to come down. Once the LEAF 2.0 comes out with presumably new battery tech, there is little incentive for Nissan to pay attention to the old LEAFs except to meet warranty obligations.

What about goodwill? Nissan have demonstrated they are shy about sharing too much of that.
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jlatl
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Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Mon May 29, 2017 8:09 am

Glad to see that this topic is back on track, but it leaves my original question still up in the air. There has been speculation, but does anyone know :

1. What a replacement battery pack is going for?

2. Has there been a trend on the price (going down I hope)?

3. Will the 30kWH pack be available for the earlier models?

It seems a shame that this information is kept so secret.
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JPWhite
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Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Mon May 29, 2017 8:55 am

jlatl wrote:Glad to see that this topic is back on track, but it leaves my original question still up in the air. There has been speculation, but does anyone know :

1. What a replacement battery pack is going for?

2. Has there been a trend on the price (going down I hope)?

3. Will the 30kWH pack be available for the earlier models?

It seems a shame that this information is kept so secret.


No secrets I'm aware of.

Price of a 24kWh pack is $5,500 plus taxes. This already includes a $1,000 core charge credit to ensure Nissan gets the old pack back. ($6,500 - $1000 + Taxes).
Labor is up to the dealer, figure $500-800 plus taxes.
2011/12 vehicles need some adapters/cables/disconnect. Adds another $200 or so plus taxes.

Price has remained the same for the last 3 years. I doubt we'll see any downward shift in price of parts.

Nissan have stated they will not retrofit the 30kWh pack to the 24kWh variants. This could of course change in the future but seems quite unlikely. The best hope is for a 3rd party to make replacement packs, the feasibility of this without access to the BMS firmware is questionable, replacing the BMS and possibly other components would only make the exercise less likely.
Last edited by JPWhite on Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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New Battery 12/3/16 (98,956)

Bufordleaf
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Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Mon May 29, 2017 5:15 pm

Thanks for the good summary JP, that is the current state of affairs as I understand it as well. My 2015 Leaf is in good shape and should provide me with years of reliable service yet, whether or not we decide to replace the battery at some point. While I really do like the Leaf, if Nissan continues to stubbornly refuse to sell 30 kWh packs to owners of older Leafs, I will not purchase another Nissan product. I will instead take my money elsewhere.
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edatoakrun
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Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Mon May 29, 2017 7:45 pm

JPWhite wrote:...Price of a 24kWh pack is $5,500 plus taxes which includes a $1,000 core charge credit to ensure Nissan gets the old pack back...

The vast majority of pack replacements so far have been under warranty or subsidized by Nissan, and were either free or exchanged for a fraction of that cost.

Of those few who have reported paying for the pack themselves, I believe several have reported substantial discounts from the $5,500 list price for exchange, with one person claiming they only were charged ~$4,200, IIRC.

Anyone know what the dealer cost is on a 24 kWh pack?
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jlatl
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Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Tue May 30, 2017 7:49 am

edatoakrun wrote:
JPWhite wrote:...Price of a 24kWh pack is $5,500 plus taxes which includes a $1,000 core charge credit to ensure Nissan gets the old pack back...

The vast majority of pack replacements so far have been under warranty or subsidized by Nissan, and were either free or exchanged for a fraction of that cost.

Of those few who have reported paying for the pack themselves, I believe several have reported substantial discounts from the $5,500 list price for exchange, with one person claiming they only were charged ~$4,200, IIRC.

Anyone know what the dealer cost is on a 24 kWh pack?


Thanks edatoakrun for the info. My 2013 has a little over 30K miles on it and I have not lost any bars or noticed any lost capacity, but I am curious - looking ahead to the future. Taking $5,500 battery cost, minus $1,000 core charge, plus about $800 install you get ~$5,300 total list.

I have been hoping that with improvements in technology, larger market, and competition we would see significant price drops. I wonder what it would be if we had a competitive market?
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JPWhite
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Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Tue May 30, 2017 4:08 pm

jlatl wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:
JPWhite wrote:...Price of a 24kWh pack is $5,500 plus taxes which includes a $1,000 core charge credit to ensure Nissan gets the old pack back...

The vast majority of pack replacements so far have been under warranty or subsidized by Nissan, and were either free or exchanged for a fraction of that cost.

Of those few who have reported paying for the pack themselves, I believe several have reported substantial discounts from the $5,500 list price for exchange, with one person claiming they only were charged ~$4,200, IIRC.

Anyone know what the dealer cost is on a 24 kWh pack?


Thanks edatoakrun for the info. My 2013 has a little over 30K miles on it and I have not lost any bars or noticed any lost capacity, but I am curious - looking ahead to the future. Taking $5,500 battery cost, minus $1,000 core charge, plus about $800 install you get ~$5,300 total list.

I have been hoping that with improvements in technology, larger market, and competition we would see significant price drops. I wonder what it would be if we had a competitive market?


FYI $5,500 is inclusive of the core discount. Without the core refund the cost is $6,500.
--
JP White
http://jpwhitenissanleaf.com
Blue SL-e, Res 4/22/10, Ord 3/29/11, Del 7/30/11
110,000 Miles.
Lost 5 Capacity bars
7/18/13 (29,206), 8/25/14 (51,728), 7/12/15 (71.108), 5/12/16 (88,362), 10/17/16 (96,532)
New Battery 12/3/16 (98,956)

edatoakrun
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Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Tue May 30, 2017 4:40 pm

jlatl wrote:...My 2013 has a little over 30K miles on it and I have not lost any bars or noticed any lost capacity, but I am curious - looking ahead to the future. Taking $5,500 battery cost, minus $1,000 core charge, plus about $800 install you get ~$5,300 total list.

I have been hoping that with improvements in technology, larger market, and competition we would see significant price drops. I wonder what it would be if we had a competitive market?

I've been waiting to see if either of those options (Nissan's "30 kWh" pack, or an aftermarket supplier) show up myself, but don't have the same luxury of time that you do.

6+ years and 52k+ miles from delivery, I may have to decide to settle for a "24 kWh" pack from Nissan.

JPWhite wrote:...Without the core refund the cost is $6,500.

No, because unless you return your core, Nissan will not sell you a pack .

Which which may present a problem to me (and perhaps Nissan) fairly soon, as I'd probably want much more than that for my OE pack, or I'd prefer to keep the batteries for home use.
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