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Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:34 pm
by mark1313
johnlocke wrote:The only answer here is going to be from third party manufacturers who won't have to do the federal testing because they'll list it as a replacement part. There's a post in batteries and charging about someone who found a Chinese manufacturer to build batteries for a Leaf. Don't know if it ever got off the ground though. The biggest problem is reprogramming the car to accept the new battery not building the battery. Cost is going to be another problem. A $5000 battery even if it's 40KWH is a hard sell to go in a $5000 car. If a 5 year old Leaf was worth $20000 with a new 40KWH battery, then you would have something. My guess is that even with the new larger battery, it still wouldn't be worth more than $12000 - $13000.

Sadly we have no choice in the matter .....All Leafs will eventually need their batteries change even if they are worth just $5000 ...I own a 2011 that is a few months away from needing a 3rd battery ....

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:44 am
by jlatl
fotajoye wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
....Tesla is an exception and shares their patents; but, I'm not sure they share their software. There are situations where Tesla will not "activate" a car which raises another question about who owns the software when you buy a car. Or, for that matter' Who Owns The Car? Hopefully someone will take this question to court.
...


The question of who owns the software in a product you buy has been one that needs to be addressed, probably through legislation.
In the past I have heard of companies who have blocked sales of their used products by claiming the integral software needed to run the product is not owned by the purchaser. Permission to use it was given only to the original purchaser. (I don't know if that still happens)

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:05 pm
by davewill
jlatl wrote:The question of who owns the software in a product you buy has been one that needs to be addressed, probably through legislation.
In the past I have heard of companies who have blocked sales of their used products by claiming the integral software needed to run the product is not owned by the purchaser. Permission to use it was given only to the original purchaser. (I don't know if that still happens)

I'm pretty sure all of those cases that have been litigated have upheld the right to resell the product.

I actually don't think the programming will be a big hurdle to someone engineering a third party solution. They will have to include their own BMS and can program it to tell the car whatever it wants to hear. Using a bigger battery may result in oddities like the car thinking you're getting 10 miles per kWh or the GOM being even more inaccurate that it is now, but getting it to work shouldn't be hard. After all, there have already been second batteries installed successfully by DIY types.

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:01 pm
by RegGuheert
davewill wrote:I actually don't think the programming will be a big hurdle to someone engineering a third party solution. They will have to include their own BMS and can program it to tell the car whatever it wants to hear. Using a bigger battery may result in oddities like the car thinking you're getting 10 miles per kWh or the GOM being even more inaccurate that it is now, but getting it to work shouldn't be hard. After all, there have already been second batteries installed successfully by DIY types.
I don't know about the MY2011/12s, but I believe in 2013 Nissan developed a security system for the LEAF to prevent the car from functioning with any battery not made by Nissan. I believe their concern was that low-quality third-party solutions could create a bad safety reputation for the vehicle.

But even if they did this, that should not prevent someone from using a LEAF BMS with third-party cells.

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:03 pm
by IssacZachary
cwerdna wrote:
fotajoye wrote:It would make even more sense if the Chinese, or anyone, could provide a long- range replacement battery at a reasonable price. I hate to buy from Nissan now that I better understand their policies.

The Chinese have bought/are buying AESC: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... any-report.

Oh great! Expect $2,000 batteries that start out at 8 bars and die within 5 months.

At least that's how it's been with Chinese parts for a lot of other cars like my classic 1972 VW Bug I'm restoring. Every Chinese part you buy you either keep fiddling with to get it to work at least partially or you go dig out that 40 year part you tossed and find a specialist who can restore it.

Hopefully it's not that way with EV batteries.

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:09 pm
by fotajoye
IssacZachary wrote:
cwerdna wrote:
fotajoye wrote:It would make even more sense if the Chinese, or anyone, could provide a long- range replacement battery at a reasonable price. I hate to buy from Nissan now that I better understand their policies.

The Chinese have bought/are buying AESC: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... any-report.

Oh great! Expect $2,000 batteries that start out at 8 bars and die within 5 months.

At least that's how it's been with Chinese parts for a lot of other cars like my classic 1972 VW Bug I'm restoring. Every Chinese part you buy you either keep fiddling with to get it to work at least partially or you go dig out that 40 year part you tossed and find a specialist who can restore it.

Hopefully it's not that way with EV batteries.


The Chinese stuff is starting to get better in a lot of areas; I bought a harbor freight wood chipper that's still working well after I tried real hard to kill it and a Chinese made Sears Garden Tractor with a Kohler engine that's on it's fifth years of service. I remember when the Japanese first imported cars, lots of problems; now they are among the most reliable. But, I don't see another source for low priced anything other than Asia.

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:16 pm
by cwerdna
fotajoye wrote:The Chinese stuff is starting to get better in a lot of areas; I bought a harbor freight wood chipper that's still working well after I tried real hard to kill it and a Chinese made Sears Garden Tractor with a Kohler engine that's on it's fifth years of service. I remember when the Japanese first imported cars, lots of problems; now they are among the most reliable. But, I don't see another source for low priced anything other than Asia.

Indeed. While there's still a ton of cheap junk that comes from China, so much of what we buy and use is made in China, much of it not bad (e.g. laptops, cell phones, tablets, TVs). All Macs, iPhones and iPads for the US market and most of the world come from China (at least assembled there).

I hear that China's becoming too expensive in terms of costs, so I've seen more stuff coming from Vietnam. My Brother (a Japanese company) all-in-one copier, scanner and laser printer was made in or assembled in Vietnam.

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:52 pm
by DaveinOlyWA
cwerdna wrote:
fotajoye wrote:The Chinese stuff is starting to get better in a lot of areas; I bought a harbor freight wood chipper that's still working well after I tried real hard to kill it and a Chinese made Sears Garden Tractor with a Kohler engine that's on it's fifth years of service. I remember when the Japanese first imported cars, lots of problems; now they are among the most reliable. But, I don't see another source for low priced anything other than Asia.

Indeed. While there's still a ton of cheap junk that comes from China, so much of what we buy and use is made in China, much of it not bad (e.g. laptops, cell phones, tablets, TVs). All Macs, iPhones and iPads for the US market and most of the world come from China (at least assembled there).

I hear that China's becoming too expensive in terms of costs, so I've seen more stuff coming from Vietnam. My Brother (a Japanese company) all-in-one copier, scanner and laser printer was made in or assembled in Vietnam.


China is moving into the 21st Century and labor is demanding to be paid so they don't have that great price advantage any more

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:16 pm
by GerryAZ
China can make quality stuff, but price is commensurate with quality and many large US companies want low prices and low quality so that is what is imported.

Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:49 pm
by LeftieBiker
Another factor in the quality of exported Chinese goods is the type of company. Well-known multinationals have a greater stake in quality, so their Chinese factories generally have higher production standards. Chinese manufacturers, though, are more interested in expanding sales rapidly, and generally consider quality to be at best a secondary factor. Also, small Chinese shops that develop a reputation for high quality tend to then get bought up by larger Chinese companies, with a subsequent slip in build quality.