ydnas7
Posts: 587
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Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:52 pm

GRA wrote:
ydnas7 wrote:
GRA wrote:September's U.S. sales total for sub-$40k MSRP PEVs:

BEV, 2,960, 37.4% (8 types: LEAF; 500e; e-Golf; Spark EV; Soul EV; Focus Electric; Smart ED; iMiEV).
PHEV, 4,948, 62.6% (6 types: Volt; Fusion Energi; C-Max Energi; A3 e-Tron; Sonata PHEV; PiP)
Total 7,908

Slight change in favor of the BEV for the monthly share. The e-Golf continues to come on strong with 529 sales. The Fusion Energi continues to outsell the LEAF, and is now about 2,400 ahead for the year. The A3 e-Tron continues to sell between 300-361 cars a month, as it has done 8 out of nine months this year (Feb. 243).


seriously, you exclude tesla?
or even Bolt? :lol: or used Tesla?

See "sub-$40k MSRP PEVs". Tesla continues to carry BEVs on its back, but until the Model 3 arrives they won't be 'affordable'.


:roll: :roll: :roll:

just can't ignore used Teslas, if you are talking about EV/PHEV market share ratio.

GRA
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Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:04 pm

ydnas7 wrote:
GRA wrote:
ydnas7 wrote:
seriously, you exclude tesla?
or even Bolt? :lol: or used Tesla?

See "sub-$40k MSRP PEVs". Tesla continues to carry BEVs on its back, but until the Model 3 arrives they won't be 'affordable'.


:roll: :roll: :roll:

just can't ignore used Teslas, if you are talking about EV/PHEV market share ratio.

Lacking data on all used PEVs, sure I can. If you have info for all used PEVs, feel free to provide it. Besides, the whole point here is to monitor the sales rates of new PEVs, not how often existing ones change hands.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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RegGuheert
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Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:01 pm

In China BEVs now command 70% of the plug-in market:
EV Sales Blog wrote:Finally, looking at the breakdown between BEV’s and PHEV’s, unlike other markets where plug-in hybrids are winning the upper hand, all-electric cars just continue improving its share, now at 70%, up 1% regarding last month.
In fact, more BEVs sell in China each month than BEVs and PHEVs combined in the US.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

GRA
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Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:32 pm

RegGuheert wrote:In China BEVs now command 70% of the plug-in market:
EV Sales Blog wrote:Finally, looking at the breakdown between BEV’s and PHEV’s, unlike other markets where plug-in hybrids are winning the upper hand, all-electric cars just continue improving its share, now at 70%, up 1% regarding last month.
In fact, more BEVs sell in China each month than BEVs and PHEVs combined in the US.

Interesting. Any idea what kind of incentives/restrictions apply to each, i.e. is the share split driven by the customer or the government? There's nothing in the article, and I don't remember the details from others I've read.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

ydnas7
Posts: 587
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:57 am

Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:15 pm

GRA wrote:
ydnas7 wrote:
GRA wrote:See "sub-$40k MSRP PEVs". Tesla continues to carry BEVs on its back, but until the Model 3 arrives they won't be 'affordable'.


:roll: :roll: :roll:

just can't ignore used Teslas, if you are talking about EV/PHEV market share ratio.

Lacking data on all used PEVs, sure I can. If you have info for all used PEVs, feel free to provide it. Besides, the whole point here is to monitor the sales rates of new PEVs, not how often existing ones change hands.


If the the whole point here is to monitor the sales rates of new PEVs, then uses either Units sales or Dollar sales, (or even kWh sales)
Excluding Tesla is basically stupid or deceptive when it comes to USA EV sales.

GRA
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Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Thu Oct 27, 2016 3:16 pm

ydnas7 wrote:
GRA wrote:
ydnas7 wrote:
:roll: :roll: :roll:

just can't ignore used Teslas, if you are talking about EV/PHEV market share ratio.

Lacking data on all used PEVs, sure I can. If you have info for all used PEVs, feel free to provide it. Besides, the whole point here is to monitor the sales rates of new PEVs, not how often existing ones change hands.


If the the whole point here is to monitor the sales rates of new PEVs, then uses either Units sales or Dollar sales, (or even kWh sales)
Excluding Tesla is basically stupid or deceptive when it comes to USA EV sales.

Not when we're concerned with 'affordable' PEVs. I used to include a small blurb listing sales of all PEVs (go back a page or two to find one), but got tired of typing "Tesla continues to carry BEVs on its back" or a variation of such every month, and the Model S/X aren't in the 'affordable' category in any case, so will never be mass market products. For the same reason, I don't include sales of Mercedes, Porsche, BMW, Volvo or Cadillac PHEVs that are above the $40k base MSRP cut-off. Not that $40k is particularly affordable, but setting the bar much lower would eliminate most of the PEVs on the market, especially the upcoming 2nd Gen. BEVs.

Otherwise, I'd set it at $30k or less, which would pretty much restrict things to the Prius Prime, Spark EV, iMiEV, smart ED etc., and except for the first we already know that the group has a very restricted market.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:51 pm

October's U.S. sales total for sub-$40k MSRP PEVs:

BEV, 2,734, 36.6% (8 types: LEAF; 500e; e-Golf; Spark EV; Soul EV; Focus Electric; Smart ED; iMiev).
PHEV, 4,737, 63.4% (5 types: Volt; Fusion Energi; C-Max Energi; A3 e-Tron; Sonata PHEV)
Total 7,471

The PiP's dropped off the list with zero sales, and the ELR (3) and i-MiEV (4) are close to doing so. For the first time since July, the Model S hasn't led the list of sales, with the Volt (2,191) being #1 for the month. In fact, the LEAF was the best selling BEV (1,412) for the first time this year, coming in at #2, and not far short of the combined sales of the Model S/X (925 + 725 = 1,650). It also exceeded sales of the Fusion Energi (1,372) for the first time since March.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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RegGuheert
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Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Thu Nov 03, 2016 5:48 pm

Meanwhile, worldwide the LEAF outsells the Volt YTD in 2016 by slightly more than 2:1.

Again, that site makes me wonder why the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV is not available in the U.S.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

GRA
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Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:31 pm

RegGuheert wrote:Meanwhile, worldwide the LEAF outsells the Volt YTD in 2016 by slightly more than 2:1.

Again, that site makes me wonder why the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV is not available in the U.S.

Yeah, here's an IEVS article quoting ev-salesblog on Swedish sales:
Plug-In Hybrids Pushes EV Market Share In Sweden Above 3%
http://insideevs.com/plug-in-hybrids-pu ... n-above-3/

Sweden is one of the largest plug-in electric car markets by market share. In recent months, thanks to strong demand for plug-in hybrids, sales have exceeded 3%, and in October reached 3.4%. . . .

As one would expect from the rather colder climate of Sweden, plug-in hybrids are at the forefront of sales…at least until more affordable long range electric vehicle solutions are available. . . .

1. Volkswagen Passat GTE – 3,359
2. Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV – 1,276
3. Volvo V60 PHEV – 981
4. Volvo XC90 T8 – 764
5. Nissan LEAF – 702
6. Tesla Model S – 655

Model X comes in at #12. The bolded section raises the question, why is Norway different from Sweden, with BEVs taking a bigger share? It used to be that BEVs got much bigger subsidies there than PHEVs did, but I believe that's changed.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:51 pm

October UK sales numbers, PHEVs are just stomping BEVs, 1,854 (82.5%) to 394 (17.5%): http://insideevs.com/british-plug-in-ma ... ming-soon/
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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