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TomT
Posts: 10611
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:40 pm

Actually, in general, GM is building some very good cars these days...

MikeinDenver wrote:I was just saying what everyone sees that looks at daily news. People obviously still buy junk cars or GM wouldn't be in business.
59,991 miles/12 bars/289 Gids/68.54 AHr/101% SOH/101.64% Hx 7May15 w/ new Lizard (barely made the warranty).
71,770 miles/12 bars/256 Gids/59.04 AHr/88% SOH/87.92% Hx 3Mar16 at lease return.

Now driving a 2016 Volt Premier.

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TomT
Posts: 10611
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:41 pm

Kind of like Leaf dealers! :lol:

Zythryn wrote:Many dealers are indifferent to the Volt, while some are downright hostile. A few are enthusiastic, but they seem to be a small minority.
59,991 miles/12 bars/289 Gids/68.54 AHr/101% SOH/101.64% Hx 7May15 w/ new Lizard (barely made the warranty).
71,770 miles/12 bars/256 Gids/59.04 AHr/88% SOH/87.92% Hx 3Mar16 at lease return.

Now driving a 2016 Volt Premier.

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RegGuheert
Posts: 6332
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:47 pm

TomT wrote:Kind of like Leaf dealers! :lol:

Zythryn wrote:Many dealers are indifferent to the Volt, while some are downright hostile. A few are enthusiastic, but they seem to be a small minority.
+1!

That's what I was thinking, too! But clearly there are SOME Nissan dealers who have discovered that the LEAF is a goldmine for them and they are doing very well. If only that success would spread to other dealerships...
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

MikeinDenver
Posts: 329
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:40 am
Delivery Date: 03 May 2014
Leaf Number: 413923
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:53 pm

TomT wrote:Actually, in general, GM is building some very good cars these days...

MikeinDenver wrote:I was just saying what everyone sees that looks at daily news. People obviously still buy junk cars or GM wouldn't be in business.


I suppose that is one opinion.
2013 SL

KillaWhat
Posts: 866
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:15 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Mar 2012
Location: Southeast Pennsylvania

Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:57 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
TomT wrote:Kind of like Leaf dealers! :lol:

Zythryn wrote:Many dealers are indifferent to the Volt, while some are downright hostile. A few are enthusiastic, but they seem to be a small minority.
+1!

That's what I was thinking, too! But clearly there are SOME Nissan dealers who have discovered that the LEAF is a goldmine for them and they are doing very well. If only that success would spread to other dealerships...



There has been a dealer "weeding out" where I live.
We have 1 Nissan dealer who really cared about the Leaf, learned what needed to be learned, and has people with the know-how to sell and support the car.
They sell Butt-loads of them
They have every color sitting on their lot, ready to go.
I have a Suburban, and last time I was in for an oil change (remember those?), I asked the GM Dealer to see a Volt.
These guys are the BIG GM dealer locally, and they don't even have one.
They don't even have a Level 2 EVSE installed.
(how can you service the Volt without a Level 2? The Ford dealer has had a Level 2 for 2 years on the Rumor of their EV)
Because of the low volume, and the Volt has had some issues, they just don't need the headaches.

(Plus, the Volt Blows. What does it get on pure battery... Like 11 Miles (With a tailwind.... Down hill :lol: )
Stick a 24Kw HV pack in there, and you would have something.
But you would also have a $50K Volt.
Black SL Delivered 3/14/2012
7.2Kw Charging w/Brusa
Leather Interior
Rosewood Dash
JUKE 17" Wheel Upgrade w/225-45-17 Michelin MXM4 Tires
Horn Upgrade
Infinity 63.9i Speaker Upgrade
WattsLeft Meter System
LED High Beams
Carkit NAV Override

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13336
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:02 pm

RegGuheert wrote:In 2012, the Volt outsold the LEAF handily (23,461 versus 9819). In 2013, Volt held a slim lead (23,094 versus 22,610). But this year, Volt is backsliding while LEAF is still gaining: (8615 versus 12736).

Is it simply that the Volt has real competitors in its space while LEAF does not (Tesla Model S excluded)? PiP seems to be eating Volt's lunch now and the Ford Energi product sales are ramping up nicely. Is PiP winning because of the very high gas mileage and high electricity prices in CA? Prii have more utility than the Volt? No offense, but I don't quite understand the appeal of the Ford products. Default plug-ins for Ford lovers?

I do expect LEAF sales to continue to ramp up assuming 2015 battery holds up well and a refresh is coming in the next year or two.

It just seems like Volt sales are waning and I am wondering what's behind it all. And what will it take for GM to recover some momentum in the plug-in arena?


The Volt is treading water and will sell about 22,000-25,000 this year which is about what they have sold every year. LEAF sales went up about 10-12,000 last year and will go up about the same this year so expect about 32,000-35,000
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13336
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:07 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
DanCar wrote:Volt is:
1. more expensive to buy
2. more expensive to maintain
3. less interior space.

On the plus side, has longer range.
Agreed, but those things have always been true, yet the Volt went from outselling the LEAF by ~2.5:1 to now trailing by 2:3.


the only thing that has really changed is the perception that the LEAFs range is inadequate.

what we really need is statistics on how many LEAF sales are currently a direct result of prior LEAF experience. 18 months ago, I knew of a half dozen 2 LEAF households. Today? dk. lost track. Just in the past 7 days, I know 3 households who got their 3rd LEAF (maintaining 2 generally) and 2 more that got a 2nd LEAF to become a 2 LEAF household.

the really confusing stat for me is why LEAF sales were so low for June. that really took me by surprise.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

adric22
Posts: 2488
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:40 pm
Delivery Date: 05 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 000768
Location: Fort Worth, TX

Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:29 pm

KillaWhat wrote:(Plus, the Volt Blows. What does it get on pure battery... Like 11 Miles (With a tailwind.... Down hill :lol: )
Stick a 24Kw HV pack in there, and you would have something.
But you would also have a $50K Volt.


Seriously? Where are you getting your facts? I drive a Volt every day. I have gotten as much as 50 miles on a charge in my 2012, and the 2013 and 2014 models actually have more range than mine. I can get 40 miles without even trying. Even in the harsh winter with the heater blowing full blast I still get 30 miles.
2013 Blue Nissan Leaf SV
2012 Summit White Chevy Volt

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TickTock
Posts: 1701
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:30 pm
Delivery Date: 31 May 2011
Leaf Number: 3626
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
Contact: Website

Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:27 pm

IMO, an all-electric car was just too radical for the majority of car buyers. Now that people are seeing them on the road and not spontaneously bursting into flame or sitting stranded by the side of the road, they are starting to get a second look and the Volt just can't compete with the convenience of the Leaf. Please don't get me wrong, the Volt is a great car and I even tried to convince my wife to get one but you do still have to buy gas unless you have very little range requirements. Never buying gas is a big selling feature once you get past the fear of the unknown.

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LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4563
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Central FL

Re: Why is the LEAF pulling away from the Volt?

Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:56 pm

MikeinDenver wrote:
TomT wrote:Actually, in general, GM is building some very good cars these days...

MikeinDenver wrote:I was just saying what everyone sees that looks at daily news. People obviously still buy junk cars or GM wouldn't be in business.


I suppose that is one opinion.

Zero problems with our Volt, our LEAF has been back for a couple things.

I see Chrysler is now getting sucked into the "unintended ignition key rotation" vortex, not surprising there is probably some supplier overlap.

I knew using a bowling ball for a key fob was a bad idea.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

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