Get a S or SV?

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nbs17

New member
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
2
Location
Atlanta, GA
I am looking at a new purchase and have a couple of questions to bounce off others...
Barring any enjoyment factor of SV over S... Is there any monetary reason to choose one over the other? Is resale better on SV? or not a big difference?
I don't have a big preference but also tell me why you would spend more on an SV? Maybe I am missing something? ;)
 
nbs17 said:
I am looking at a new purchase and have a couple of questions to bounce off others...
Barring any enjoyment factor of SV over S... Is there any monetary reason to choose one over the other? Is resale better on SV? or not a big difference?
I don't have a big preference but also tell me why you would spend more on an SV? Maybe I am missing something? ;)
The S or "standard" as I like to call it is very bare-bones electric vehicle. It has everything you need for a point A to point B vehicle and a few things extra like heated seats, radio, etc. I would say the biggest resale point is the quick charge port and built-in 6kW charger. Unless the S had these added in as an optional package, having a SV without these would only give an advantage when it comes to the heat pump vs. the elemental heat of the two vehicles. Many are happy with the S model provided it has the quick charge package. What a lot of people are finding is they buy an S model that has no quick charge package, so range is a bit more limited vs. the time it takes to charge the vehicle.

So, don't choose an S over an SV, choose the quick charge package first, then if you want the heat pump for better range during the winter time choose the SV or SL model. I have both an S and an SV (loaded with everything except leather seats and rear solar panel) and the only thing that concerns me between the two is that the S with it's 3.3kW charger (and no quick charge) is mainly used for around town errands and trips. The SV with the quick charge package is used for out of town or out of state trips due to the ability to recharge the range many, many times faster.
 
First of all, you should never get the base S model. Always get the S with the charge package. Both the 6.6 kw charger and the Quick Charger will be very helpful and in many ways necessary for any resale.

The next biggest area of concern is the heater. IMO the biggest benefit to the SV is the hybrid heater, which if you live in a cold climate will save you a lot of capacity in the winter months. The S model heater sucks much more juice.

I wound up buying the S model w/QC and here's my two cents. If I could go back and do it again, I'd still buy the S, but here's what I miss the most from the SV. (1) The navigation and charging interface - This is much better in the SV. The S model charge timer is cumbersome to use and doesn't have the ability to monitor or start via a mobile device. However, I hear that the mobile carwings application will be in trouble soon because it runs on the old Edge celluar networks. (2) The hybrid heater once in a while, but in all fairness, I'd be fine either way with my commute. I think the lowest I've returned home with during the winter was 35% charge, so even with the S model heater, I doubt my commute will ever be a problem. (3) I think the stereo is a little better in the SV, but I'm not losing any sleep over it.

Now here's why I didn't buy the SV. When you factor in the LED/Charge port package, the MSRP difference between it and the S w/QC is just shy of $3000. What you get for that is the better radio, alloy wheels, nav, better charge timer, hybrid heater and some minor interior upgrades. In my opinion, unless you live in a cooler climate and are pushing the limits of range, you don't really need the hybrid heater, its not worth the extra money. You could get the SV without the LED/Charge package, but this may damage your resale in the future because most people want the QC capabilities.

When I bought my 2015 S, my math was mainly about how cheap I could get the car for and as I added up the options, it just made less sense to buy the SV. I bought rather than leased, so there was an incentive to keep it cheaper. Also think about your long term plans for the car. Are you going to keep it for many years? trade it in? sell it? Run some numbers and see where each gets you. For me the extra $3K didn't seem to pay off in the long run. If I wind up keeping it long term, maybe I can consider the $3000 savings payment toward the $5500 battery replacement. The 2015 S model is pretty well equip for me.
 
The quick charger is an option on the S, but the heat pump is only available on the more expensive models. If you have much cold weather, then go for the heat pump.

The S also lacks the navigation system, and the stereo is not all that great.
 
In moderate winter climates, the heat pump (SV or SL) makes a real difference in range vs. comfort. That would be the main benefit compared to S with QC package. I do not recommend the S without the QC package because it is nice to be able to recharge quickly when necessary (even 6 kW L2 is significantly faster than 3.3 kW).

Gerry
 
nbs17 said:
Is resale better on SV? or not a big difference?

All this would just be speculation but if you are buying and not leasing then I would bet that resale on the SV would get you a little more. More important than that is that you would probably be able to sell the car a lot quicker.

SV also allows you to log on through the app and turn on the climate control. That in my eyes is what really makes it worth the extra little bit. I still think you can set a timer on the S but then you're limited to only having it when you plan to leave. Heat pump or non may not be an issue if you drive very little, say less than 30 a day and never ever more than 40.

My personal advice, if you can afford it get the SV, it's much nicer. You're not wasting money.
 
I just feel like for value, if you can make do with the S w/QC its a better return on investment. The margin on cars goes up as the trim level increases, and while a used SV or SL may yield $1-2K more in resale value, that doesn't correspond well to the $3-6K extra those models cost you new.

Ex. My break even cost on my 2015 S w/QC is about $13800. If I sell it for that in 3 years time, I lose "NO" money on the deal. Granted, I'll likely wind up selling it for less, say $10-12K? which corresponds to a loss of $2-4K. However, if I bought an SV, my break even cost would have been $16800, and I'd only get $11-13K for the car, an SL... $18,800 and I'd maybe get $12-14K for the car. Therefore, my odds of losing more money when I sell it increase as the trim levels go up.
 
tkdbrusco said:
I just feel like for value, if you can make do with the S w/QC its a better return on investment. The margin on cars goes up as the trim level increases, and while a used SV or SL may yield $1-2K more in resale value, that doesn't correspond well to the $3-6K extra those models cost you new.

Ex. My break even cost on my 2015 S w/QC is about $13800. If I sell it for that in 3 years time, I lose "NO" money on the deal. Granted, I'll likely wind up selling it for less, say $10-12K? which corresponds to a loss of $2-4K. However, if I bought an SV, my break even cost would have been $16800, and I'd only get $11-13K for the car, an SL... $18,800 and I'd maybe get $12-14K for the car. Therefore, my odds of losing more money when I sell it increase as the trim levels go up.

Excellent point. The "S" is considered by some to be a "loss leader" by Nissan. In other words, they are either losing money on it, or at least not making as much as they would on the SV/SL trims. It is conveniently priced just below $30k so that it shows up on web searches for cars under $30k. That's not a coincidence. That's generally true of any car on the market - the lowest trim exists so that the manufacturer can advertise a low price. But they know most people go up a trim. Or two. As a result, the lowest trim is usually the best value for the consumer.

@tkdbrusco, I'm curious as to how you calculate your "break even cost". Would you mind breaking this down for me?
 
Sure. Here's my math.

My 2015 S w/QC wound up costing me $18,340 after you account for sales tax, license, and deduct the $10K combined federal and state credits.

My math for fuel costs computes to a savings of about $1500/year. This includes the fact that I primarily charge the car at work for free and the fact that I drive about 15K miles a year.

Insurance cost was nearly identical to the car it replaced, so that's a wash.

This means that $13,840 would be a sale price that would yield me ZERO loss on the car if I sell it in 3 years.

This is also a bit conservative as I could add in a few extra benefits that would lower the break even price. (1) No oil changes or other significant engine services ($500-$800 savings). (2) Decreased depreciation on my other car due to minimal driving... ($700/year)

My decision to base this on a 3 year plan to sell it comes from the fact that these 3 years will be up summer 2017, just about the time that Leaf2 and Bolt are out in the market, and hopefully Tesla Model 3 is close to being released. This is also around the time the $7500 tax credit will be close to expiring for Nissan, Chevy, and Tesla. So I need to strike around then to take advantage.

Hope that helps.
 
Thanks. I don't generally think of any car (which is a depreciating asset) as having a "break even cost", but I guess it makes sense. I like to think about the total cost of ownership, so I guess "break even" would be the same TCO as some other car. It is a little disingenuous to say that you have "zero loss" on the car. Rather, you have the same loss as if you had kept your previous car.

Depreciation is the wild card, since we don't know the cars will be worth when we sell them. On the one hand, you forget to include depreciation on the old car. On the other hand, if you cannot sell your Leaf for ~$13,800, you would have been (financially) better off just keeping the old car. Of course you probably aren't in an EV just for the money.
 
GetOffYourGas said:
Thanks. I don't generally think of any car (which is a depreciating asset) as having a "break even cost", but I guess it makes sense. I like to think about the total cost of ownership, so I guess "break even" would be the same TCO as some other car. It is a little disingenuous to say that you have "zero loss" on the car. Rather, you have the same loss as if you had kept your previous car.

Depreciation is the wild card, since we don't know the cars will be worth when we sell them. On the one hand, you forget to include depreciation on the old car. On the other hand, if you cannot sell your Leaf for ~$13,800, you would have been (financially) better off just keeping the old car. Of course you probably aren't in an EV just for the money.

Actually I don't have the same loss as the prior car because the cost of ownership on the prior car was about $2000/yr higher considering that fuel cost was $1500 and maintenance was on average $500.

And actually yes, I did buy the EV just for the money. I could care less about the other benefits, I just wanted to get some of my tax dollars back. That being said, I'm sold on the experience of driving an EV and I think they will eventually become the norm.
 
tkdbrusco said:
Actually I don't have the same loss as the prior car because the cost of ownership on the prior car was about $2000/yr higher considering that fuel cost was $1500 and maintenance was on average $500.

I never said you did. What I said was that "break even" would be to have the same TCO as some other option. In other words, it costs you the same either way. But to actually have "zero loss" on a car - that is a TCO of $0 - you would have to sell the car for MORE than you bought it. The difference would have to pay for your fuel/maintenance/insurance/etc for the time you owned the car.

tkdbrusco said:
And actually yes, I did buy the EV just for the money. I could care less about the other benefits, I just wanted to get some of my tax dollars back. That being said, I'm sold on the experience of driving an EV and I think they will eventually become the norm.

Interesting. I guess that's what happens when I assume ;)

Considering I traded in an 8-year-old Civic for my Leaf, there was almost no hope of "breaking even" with just keeping the Civic. So if I had bought only for the money, I would have been making a very poor choice ;)
 
I owned the base S model, without the QC package for a two year period. I never needed the quick charge. EVSE Upgrade provided 240v charging at home and I just plugged in the Leaf every night (commuting 43 miles a day.)

Some of my colleagues never even bothered to upgrade the stock EVSE and simply charged on a 120v circuit.

Just got a new S model with the QC package. I haven't used it the quick charger yet, but it does mean I can now plan a trip that would take me farther than I've gone before.

I think the enhanced models are really nice and likely worth the extra cost if you enjoy those features. I don't want to pay extra for them so I stuck with the logical choice, the QC equipped S model. I don't think the dealers here in Atlanta are even stocking base S models without it.

At the time I signed the first lease, the price listed for the base S model to purchase at the end of the 2-year term was around $19,000. Nissan contacted me and offered to sell it to me for $12,500.

The new 2-year lease on my 2015 lists that end of term price tag at $11,500. Perhaps Nissan anticipates that with more built-in range in the newer models, the 2015 will depreciate even more quickly. I would think that applies to ALL versions of the LEAF, so you may want to plan accordingly.
 
Yep, as my father said, "The stigma of missing features lingers on long after the euphoria of low price wears off..." I always go for the higher end models and have never regretted it. To me, the S is the personification of an econobox.

DesertDenizen said:
My view is I only live once, so my Leafs have been SLs, and I love them.
 
So the question is how are you going to use the car? if it is to work and back only, and if that is under 50 miles. then get the Leaf S. I own a 2011 SL and drive a 2013S w/QC for work. The NAV is nice to have if you plan on tripping or have a long daily drive. IMO to have a miles to home and miles to no battery side by side helps a lot. I find myself adjusting my driving sometimes faster, if I have power to burn. Slower or find a new route if I need more range to get home. I have found find a charging station on trips can be helpful to find a station. I have been 500 yards from a new station and could not find it. the GPS helped. Yes your phone has GPS and yes plugshare is on the phone .... But it is right in front of you. I find Knowledge to be helpful.
I know a lot of people that have thought they would use the car one way before they bought it then want to use it more after. I have never thought of the cost of a car after sale ( ok maybe a little) but I have missed things I wanted on the car for years....if on the fence go for it...
 
I've heard the navigation is slow and horrible, and yet here people are stating it's a reason to get the SV or an S...?

I got an S w/ QC and have zero regrets but I do live in California where I only used the seat and steering wheel warmers mostly during the "winter". I was looking for the cheapest cost way to get in the carpool lane and the S has way more than what I need for a commuter.
 
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