Consumer Reports recommends used LEAFs

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LeftieBiker said:
They really dropped the ball by not mentioning that these used Leafs will almost always have significant capacity - and thus range - loss.
The article did mention range limitations... If the LEAF handily meets one's driving needs, excepting a day or few days here or there where one can rent, it does make sense to get a nice used on for sure... At least that's my personal take...

I find a greater omission is that LEAFs are more expensive, seemingly, to insure...
 
JimSouCal said:
...

I find a greater omission is that LEAFs are more expensive, seemingly, to insure...

I found just the opposite. To add the LEAF to our existing AAA Insurance was $179 per year. It qualified for a 'Hybrid Vehicle' and some other discounts. We do have multiple cars and homeowners insurance with AAA.
 
Good to see Consumer Reports recognizing the value of used LEAFs. :D

Bad to see such poor reporting that makes ill advised statements like "The car will go 75 to 80 miles on a good day before needing a recharge."
Although not totally inaccurate, it completely fails to inform the reader of the realistic range of some used LEAFs. Nominal 40 to 60 mile range is more realistic, and 2011 and 2012 with no heat pump heater are often more like 30 to 35 miles in the winter if you like heat. :cry:

And failing to mention the capacity degradation problems is down right incompetent. :shock:

Nissan marketing is probably happy though.
Fits right in with the incomplete and inaccurate information they have been spewing since before the LEAF arrived. :oops:
 
LeftieBiker said:
They really dropped the ball by not mentioning that these used Leafs will almost always have significant capacity - and thus range - loss.

using infrequent transportation needs as a guide is not required and the basics, including range limitations were mentioned. its an article, not a book.
 
TimLee said:
Good to see Consumer Reports recognizing the value of used LEAFs. :D

Bad to see such poor reporting that makes ill advised statements like "The car will go 75 to 80 miles on a good day before needing a recharge."
Although not totally inaccurate, it completely fails to inform the reader of the realistic range of some used LEAFs. Nominal 40 to 60 mile range is more realistic, and 2011 and 2012 with no heat pump heater are often more like 30 to 35 miles in the winter if you like heat. :cry:

And failing to mention the capacity degradation problems is down right incompetent. :shock:

Nissan marketing is probably happy though.
Fits right in with the incomplete and inaccurate information they have been spewing since before the LEAF arrived. :oops:

ok, you fully commented on half the sentence now what about the other half "on a good day?"
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
ok, you fully commented on half the sentence now what about the other half "on a good day?"
I agreed that the statement is technically accurate.
But I don't think articles, or Nissan marketing, or zealous electric vehicle advocates only telling part of the story is very productive for the increase in the use of electric vehicles. Increasing the use of electric vehicles is a good thing and needs to happen.

But often only telling half the story means they have come close to telling a half lie.
And that is contrary to increasing the use of electric vehicles.
 
TimLee said:
Good to see Consumer Reports recognizing the value of used LEAFs. :D

Bad to see such poor reporting that makes ill advised statements like "The car will go 75 to 80 miles on a good day before needing a recharge."
Although not totally inaccurate, it completely fails to inform the reader of the realistic range of some used LEAFs. Nominal 40 to 60 mile range is more realistic, and 2011 and 2012 with no heat pump heater are often more like 30 to 35 miles in the winter if you like heat. :cry:

Does your Leaf not have heated seats and steering wheel? How high do you turn on the cabin heat? What temp and fan bars?

Heck my 2005 Prius didn't have the heated seat or steering wheel, I had to add a cheapo heating pad for the seat and wear gloves on even mild winter days. The cabin heat worked but it robbed my Prius of MPG (which lessened the range not that I cared when I could do 400-500 miles on a tank).

I bought a used Leaf just last month with one bar lost (83% SOH). I did 80 miles on a full charge driving it home from NC. I don't know what kind of winter range I'll get but I'm thinking I'll set the heat on 60F and one fan bar (the lowest each will do and still be on) then use the seat and steering wheel heaters.

I'll still have a jacket and gloves with me for the walk to the door and plugging in the L1 EVSE at work. I might even wear them when driving.

Of course after this summer I may be down a 2nd bar and be playing in the upper 70s on SOH% (I'm down to 81% in June) so I won't swear that I won't notice the range loss.
 
TimLee said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
ok, you fully commented on half the sentence now what about the other half "on a good day?"
I agreed that the statement is technically accurate.
But I don't think articles, or Nissan marketing, or zealous electric vehicle advocates only telling part of the story is very productive for the increase in the use of electric vehicles. Increasing the use of electric vehicles is a good thing and needs to happen.

But often only telling half the story the story means they have come close to telling a half lie.
And that is contrary to increasing the use of electric vehicles.

lets take the article for what it is. its a fluff piece. there is no real analysis, no testing, no nothing. it is general info at its barest form. you need to read the standard CR disclaimer again. the basic message is correct. I know people driving LEAFs with 3 missing capacity bars who are doing just fine. But we all know this so why are we nitpicking the phrasing of this article? it simply does not deserve this much attention
 
dhanson865 said:
Does your Leaf not have heated seats and steering wheel? How high do you turn on the cabin heat? What temp and fan bars?
...
No.
Only a few 2011 LEAFs at the end of the year got cold weather package.
How high I run the heat depends on whether I can tolerate the power use.
But I rarely drive the LEAF in winter without the heat in Auto set on 68F.
If range is not a problem, maybe 74F on Auto.
30 to 35 mile range is for 2011 LEAF missing two capacity bars and soon to lose third running temp on Auto at 68F on a 25F ambient day to Low Battery Warning.
Yes you can use less heat and run to VLB and get a few more miles, but I am referring to average use not zealous use. To each their own.

Yes, you got a great deal on your LEAF at $8,995 and not much capacity degradation.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
... the basic message is correct. I know people driving LEAFs with 3 missing capacity bars who are doing just fine. But we all know this so why are we nitpicking the phrasing of this article? it simply does not deserve this much attention
We disagree.
I think half the truth information no matter who is dispersing it does a disservice to the adoption of electric vehicles.

I plan to tell the whole story, not half.
 
quote="TimLee"...30 to 35 mile range is for 2011 LEAF missing two capacity bars and soon to lose third running temp on Auto at 68F on a 25F ambient day to Low Battery Warning...
TimLee said:
...I plan to tell the whole story, not half.
Like maybe, also saying?

60 to 70 mile range, for a 2011 LEAF missing two capacity bars and soon to lose third running temp on Auto at 68F when driven between 35-45 mph on a 50F average ambient day from "100%" charge to Very Low Battery Warning.
That's what I expect to experience next winter, when my 2011 has between 40k and 42 k miles on it.
 
TimLee said:
dhanson865 said:
Does your Leaf not have heated seats and steering wheel? How high do you turn on the cabin heat? What temp and fan bars?
...
No.
Only a few 2011 LEAFs at the end of the year got cold weather package.

Yes, and the article said that most of the cars for sale cheap are 2012 models. I wonder why that is considering there were so similar numbers between 2011 and 2012 in the US?

From http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2011 Leaf sold 9,674
2012 Leaf sold 9,819

Slightly more 2012 than 2011 and if you toss in the cold weather package 2011s and treat them like 2012s it gets a little more lopsided.

are the 2011s being kept by earlier adopters and 2012s got sold off at a higher rate?

Whatever the reason thanks for the idea on what to expect for winter. Since I'm garaged at night and I have the heated seat / steering wheel. I'm not expecting to see the big range hit. I'll be sure to document it though so i can figure out how I'll handle degradation down the road, might as well share the numbers when I have them.
 
dhanson865 said:
TimLee said:
dhanson865 said:
Does your Leaf not have heated seats and steering wheel? How high do you turn on the cabin heat? What temp and fan bars?
...
No.
Only a few 2011 LEAFs at the end of the year got cold weather package.

Yes, and the article said that most of the cars for sale cheap are 2012 models. I wonder why that is considering there were so similar numbers between 2011 and 2012 in the US?

From http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2011 Leaf sold 9,674
2012 Leaf sold 9,819

Slightly more 2012 than 2011 and if you toss in the cold weather package 2011s and treat them like 2012s it gets a little more lopsided.

are the 2011s being kept by earlier adopters and 2012s got sold off at a higher rate?


i think 2011 just had too many buyers who had never leased creating a small pool of leased returns (my 2011 was first leased vehicle for me) but I was hesitant to buy. another issue was MUCH higher residuals on 2012's when monthly payments were cut down to encourage more sales encouraging lease returns.

As far as good deals, starting to see a lot of 2013's in random areas of the country at a pretty attractive price
 
dhanson865 said:
...
are the 2011s being kept by earlier adopters and 2012s got sold off at a higher rate?
...
A lot more of the 2011 were purchased instead of leased.
The spreadsheet on LEAF orders and deliveries clearly showed that.
Early on it may have been as high as 85% purchase and 15% lease.
Some people feared an EV1 repeat by Nisssn, with leased vehicles crushed.

LEAF value dropped quickly.
When the improved 2013 became available, my 2011 LEAF tradein value was already down to $17,000.
With a couple things I did not like on the 2013, the black leather and foot operated parking brake, I hung on to the 2011.

I think quite a few that purchased 2011 still have them.
Most of the 2011 leases have been turned back in.
Only a few like,TomT who got new battery just a few miles before the deadline and then extended the lease, are still on lease.

The ratio of leases rapidly increased.
The ratio of leases got to 75% or 85% fairly quickly.

Not as many people are willing to purchase a disposable car.

But at less than $9K, if the range works for you for enough miles disposable is OK.
 
Good, if nothing else this article might help to increase demand for used Leafs and slow down depreciation. I'm sure there is enough people who take CR's seal of approval seriously, and who might start scratching their heads after reading this article.
 
LeftieBiker said:
They will *really* be scratching their heads - and worse - after trying to get 80 miles from a 10 bar 2012 Leaf in normal driving.

hah, I had to do 40-45 mph through NC/TN to get 80 miles or so out of a 11 bar 2012 Leaf. And I had leafspy app on board.

They'll be super frustrated the first time they hear "low battery" warning from the speakers when they've only done 40 miles.
 
LeftieBiker said:
They will *really* be scratching their heads - and worse - after trying to get 80 miles from a 10 bar 2012 Leaf in normal driving.

Some will, more informed others won't. Ultimately I don't care, all I need is a higher demand for used Leafs, and articles like this can only help.
 
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