gbrance
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:21 am
Delivery Date: 31 Dec 2015

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:13 pm

I have no doubt that if the market is there that somebody will come up with a 3rd party solution for a batter replacement . The question will be if enough of a market exists for a 3rd party solution.

cliff
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 10:36 am
Delivery Date: 15 Sep 2012
Leaf Number: 022673
Location: Federal Way, WA

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:41 am

gbrance wrote: The question will be if enough of a market exists for a 3rd party solution.

Due partially to Nissan's battery ID system, any 3rd party would have to make a deal with
Nissan to get that technical data. But since Nissan makes the batteries themselves, under what
situation would Nissan create a competitor? No loan would be made without seeing an
agreement from Nissan. Also the price has to be low enough, I would like to buy a 30kwh
pack, but not if at $20,000.

jlsoaz
Posts: 586
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:57 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 24218
Location: Southern Arizona, USA

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:33 pm

http://www.automobile-propre.com/locati ... ectriques/
Location batterie : et si Renault avait finalement raison ?
16 Fév 2017 greenemotion Voiture électrique 85 commentaires

using google translate we have:
https://translate.googleusercontent.com ... urNkMgb7fw

"...A new offer to come: Renault ZOE used with 300 km of actual range

"Given the prices currently traded in the second-hand ZOEs in circulation in 2013 and / or with more than 50,000 km on the counter, some potential buyers have taken out their calculators to get a better idea of ??the acquisition cost Of a used ZOE + battery change.

"The number is then without appeal: for less than 12 k € (to which it is obviously necessary to add the cost of the monthly rental of the battery), it is now possible to drive in an EV with a real range of between 250 and 300 Kilometers. An offer that no other manufacturer is able to offer to date...."


Where it says "without appeal" .... something seems wrong with the translation, as the rest of the message seems to be the deal may be appealing to some.

In any event, this seems like a good deal to me. I would consider paying EUR 12k for a vehicle and an additional monthly battery lease fee for a new battery, especially if it could get me something on the order of 100-150 EPA miles per month.

Several things aren't clear to me about this article including what deals are actually offered and which ones might simply be the author of the article offering their opinion.
josh@jlaz.com
near Tucson, AZ, USA
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/vehicle.php?vid=229
opinions expressed are my own

Sjabba
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:17 am
Delivery Date: 18 Apr 2016

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:07 am

Yes, Renault offers current Zoe-drivers an upgrade to a 40Kwh batterypack.

The former Zoe has a lease construction for the pack. But within some month you can order the new pack. They charge you fittingcosts (arround 3500 EUR) and off couse still a monthly fee for the lease of the pack. You wouldn't be owner of the pack. If you buy the new Zoe you can choose to lease or buy the pack. So if you buy a "old" Zoe you must invest another 3500 to get the pack fitted. That are costs you make but you still will not be owner of the pack.

The offer to upgrade is an unique selling point. The reason why Nissan doesn't do that reminds me of Kodak. They invented the digital camera but put it on the self because the film was selling so good. The a tirdparty started to selling them and it was to late.

jlsoaz
Posts: 586
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:57 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 24218
Location: Southern Arizona, USA

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:59 am

Sjabba - thanks for this information, I appreciate it, very useful.

I hadn't heard the story about Kodak and the digital camera in quite that way but am curious now, so will try to read it. Assuming it's right, a cautionary aspect of that might be that in a new industry, even if it seems like it might not in some ways be very competitive (since it is new), it is dangerous for a company to think that it can make that kind of choice (to not pursue a solution that might benefit some of their customers) and still maintain their competitive edge.

Sjabba wrote:Yes, Renault offers current Zoe-drivers an upgrade to a 40Kwh batterypack.

The former Zoe has a lease construction for the pack. But within some month you can order the new pack. They charge you fittingcosts (arround 3500 EUR) and off couse still a monthly fee for the lease of the pack. You wouldn't be owner of the pack. If you buy the new Zoe you can choose to lease or buy the pack. So if you buy a "old" Zoe you must invest another 3500 to get the pack fitted. That are costs you make but you still will not be owner of the pack.

The offer to upgrade is an unique selling point. The reason why Nissan doesn't do that reminds me of Kodak. They invented the digital camera but put it on the self because the film was selling so good. The a tirdparty started to selling them and it was to late.
josh@jlaz.com
near Tucson, AZ, USA
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/vehicle.php?vid=229
opinions expressed are my own

DaveInAvl
Posts: 174
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:11 am
Delivery Date: 18 Mar 2014
Leaf Number: 331649
Location: Asheville, NC

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:47 pm

jlsoaz wrote:Where it says "without appeal" .... something seems wrong with the translation, as the rest of the message seems to be the deal may be appealing to some

My guess is that was a literal translation of an expression intended to mean "indisputable"...

parkwright
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:21 pm
Delivery Date: 24 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 016768

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:20 am

In other words, stop throwing good money after bad, cut your losses, don't buy or recommend a Leaf :x

jlsoaz
Posts: 586
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:57 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 24218
Location: Southern Arizona, USA

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:57 pm

parkwright wrote:In other words, stop throwing good money after bad, cut your losses, don't buy or recommend a Leaf :x


Hi:

I personally would not go this far. It's still a very thin market with very few options and if someone came to me for advice on buying a new BEV, and was ok to suffer the depreciation on buying a new car (I generally am not, regardless of which car) then I'd say the upcoming Leaf looks competitive in its way with the Bolt and the Model 3... pretty much the only decent-range BEV options under $45k. I have lost track of whether Nissan has clarified making a 2018 that is fully competitive in range with those other two, and that would introduce some complication to the conversation, but assuming they come around to offer one that is up there in range, then it would have to be part of the conversation. Indeed, with so much experience and a fairly attractive-looking offering, I think a 2018 Leaf, if Nissan offers it with ~60 kWh, looks competitive to me.

Yes, there are pros and cons I would offer, and of course there are many complications, and the 100-150 mile range would certainly come into the conversation, and I would mention that gen1 Leaf buyers went through very steep depreciation. While arguably some of that is the math of the federal tax credit and some of it is early adopter inevitability, an additional reason is (arguably) that there didn't seem to be a good forward-thinking "gen1.5" battery replacement option offered, the way Renault maybe has done in Europe.

If a different conversation took place and someone asked me about buying a used Leaf, I wouldn't emphasize it as much against other used competitors, both BEV and PHEV. To be sure, it might have been really cool to recommend it if Nissan had been able to come up with some interesting official retrofit (such as a $10k 40 kWh battery replacement). However, they didn't do this, and so be it. It wouldn't make me leave the used Leaf entirely out of the conversation, but I would be very careful about it. For example, I'd recommend a used Volt for most purposes over a used Leaf, unless the person absolutely could not tolerate burning any more gasoline at all, and even then, I'd try to understand if they really could live with just a very short range used BEV.
josh@jlaz.com
near Tucson, AZ, USA
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/vehicle.php?vid=229
opinions expressed are my own

powersurge
Posts: 714
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:44 am

I would never spend $10K on a battery, even if it was a 40Kw battery.

I think the real issue here is NOT asking, "would I recommend a Leaf", because I don't care what other people do I have not stake in what car people buy.. Most of us here dealing with the battery issue BECAUSE WE OWN our Leaf cars, and the issue is "What do I do with my car when she don't go no more?" Do I junk it, sell it for $3000, or spend money on a replacement battery.

Although IT WOULD BE NICE to have a bigger battery, if it not possible...... so it goes. BUT if people are complaining that they should get a 40KW battery replacement at a minimal price, I think that that is a little bit of greed showing.

Anyone who has a Leaf with a bad battery has either owned it a long time, or bought it at a good price. Considering how new car prices escalate like the Rocky Mountains, spending even $5000 on a battery replacement is certainly a good deal to get a futuristic car. Truth is that you got $7500 off on the price of the car, and if you got the S trim, you saved another $5000 on the price of the car. So, spending another $5000 to get another 80K miles out of that car is an infinite BARGAIN!! Hopefully, the price of the battery will drop from $5000 to about $3000 soon... Or Nissan will offer a discount???

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