Moof
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:11 pm
Leaf Number: 004023
Location: Beaverton, OR

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:57 pm

Valdemar wrote:Does it mean some lucky 2011/12 owners will get their pack replaced with a 30kWh version under warranty?

Hopefully they will at least change their tune and allow 2011-2015 MY's to receive 30kWh packs in the first place.
Didn't some of the class action language require they use the current production packs for replacements? Shouldn't there still be a bunch of 2012's that have yet to age-out of their warranty that should fall into this category?
2011 Cayenne Red bought used with 30k miles, manufacture data of 5/2011
42k miles 82% SOH 11 bars 218 GIDs at full charge
Running with Michelin Premier A/S with 42 psi for 10k miles

Kris1
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:38 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Sep 2013
Leaf Number: 200165
Location: Sydney Australia

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:02 pm

I'm puzzled by some of the technical aspects of a battery upgrade;
1) The after market pack from hybrid auto that sits in the rear parcel area & charges from the onboard charger via its own BMS apparently works.
2) Some folks are claiming however that a replacement higher capacity pack won't. Their rationale is that the car computer can handle declining gids (aging battery) but not extra gids (bigger pack).
3) The subtlety between 1) & 2) is lost on me. If the car computer can cope with the extra capacity of a paralleled pack why wouldn't it cope with a bigger pack?

dsh
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:29 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 001069

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:51 pm

Has anybody put both a 24kwh 'lizard battery' Leaf and 30kwh Leaf on lifts, side by side, to see if the panels covering the packs are the same, and then take the panels off to see if the electrical connections are similiar? I recently asked a Leaf technician at Avondale Nissan if the 30kwh packs can be fitted to 2011 Leafs, but he said he hasn't had to remove any 30kwh packs yet, so he couldn't answer my question. I am sure someone on this forum knows a Leaf technician that can find out whats needed to put the 30kwh packs into a 2011 Leaf i.e. different connectors, underbody panels, etc.
SL-e

User avatar
Coronado54
Gold Member
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Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:30 am
Leaf Number: 019904

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:49 pm

FOr information on pack replacements and the differences between the 2011/2012 and later packs visit the Pacific area discussion in the groups section. Look for postings by 'COR' who has done some exchanges. It's great information.

jlsoaz
Posts: 582
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:57 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 24218
Location: Southern Arizona, USA

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:16 am

Coronado54 wrote:FOr information on pack replacements and the differences between the 2011/2012 and later packs visit the Pacific area discussion in the groups section. Look for postings by 'COR' who has done some exchanges. It's great information.


Thanks, good to know. Here is a link to at least one of the threads, going back about 6 months and continuing through present-day.

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=21997
Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?
josh@jlaz.com
near Tucson, AZ, USA
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/vehicle.php?vid=229
opinions expressed are my own

Dooglas
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:08 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 314779
Location: Oregon City, OR

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:24 pm

Here is one answer to the question about a 30 kWh battery pack in an older Leaf - and that answer is no.

https://transportevolved.com/2015/09/11 ... san-leafs/
2013 Leaf SV - lease ended, 2016 Leaf S30

jlsoaz
Posts: 582
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:57 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 24218
Location: Southern Arizona, USA

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:51 am

Dooglas wrote:Here is one answer to the question about a 30 kWh battery pack in an older Leaf - and that answer is no.

https://transportevolved.com/2015/09/11 ... san-leafs/


Thanks, you're right, I think the answer is "no", at least the official answer from Nissan. As was probably remarked here over time, in the opinion of some, this arguably marks a missed opportunity for Nissan to work with early adopters, or purchasers of used earliest systems, to keep those vehicles relevant and useful, and at competitive prices.

It also begs the question of whether any cottage industry might spring up of 3rd parties retrofitting larger batteries into early Leafs. That effort does seem to be there, though I am not sure exactly where it presently stands and noting it does carry the usual severe drawbacks such as that the vehicles might then (I guess) be well outside of manufacturer warranties and support.

Opinions my own.
josh@jlaz.com
near Tucson, AZ, USA
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/vehicle.php?vid=229
opinions expressed are my own

baustin
Posts: 415
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:23 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 402162
Location: North Las Vegas, NV

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:42 pm

The biggest problem that I see is Nissan requiring the battery electronics to be paired with the car electronics, and keeping a tight control on the ability to do so. Until someone finds a way to complete that process, without a Nissan Tech and tools, the only upgrade option is to crack open the battery and replace the individual cells.
2013 Leaf SV - Cayenne Red - QC Port - LED Headlights

Kris1
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:38 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Sep 2013
Leaf Number: 200165
Location: Sydney Australia

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:16 am

Wonder if the 30kwh cell chemistry is close enough to the 24kwh cell chemistry for a 2012 BMS to manage them after the swap over?

VitaminJ
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:46 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 415775
Location: Morrison, CO
Contact: YouTube

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:45 am

Dooglas wrote:Here is one answer to the question about a 30 kWh battery pack in an older Leaf - and that answer is no.

https://transportevolved.com/2015/09/11 ... san-leafs/

This doesn't make sense to me. They state that the 24kwh and 30kwh batteries are physically the same dimensions and fit in the same shape hole in the chassis, ok so the 30kwh will "bolt in" to an early car question answered.

They state that the reason it cannot actually be used with the 24kwh Leaf is because the BMS will have to be different. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the BMS inside the sealed battery module with the cells and an independent system from the rest of the car?

And if it's not then shouldn't that just be a matter of also changing out the BMS? Of course Nissan does not want to be bound to spend any more money on warranty replacements than needed, so I would not expect them to state the batteries are interchangeable publicly. I also know Nissan is not stupid and they would not completely re-design the Leaf for a mid-gen battery upgrade so the changes must be modular and most likely minor. For instance when you swap engines in a car you usually also swap the ECU. Maybe you will also need to change the motor controller or something else but it's almost certainly not "impossible."

The software unlock is most likely the biggest hurdle to the whole thing and that is just a matter of time until it's either in the public domain or licensed to a 3rd party/done as a service.

None of us will know until an independent Leaf specialist gets ahold of the first wrecked 30kwh Leaf, which probably won't be long!
2013 Ocean Blue SV w/ QC and LED

PM me about converting your 120v EVSE to 240v

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