jlsoaz
Posts: 605
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:57 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 24218
Location: Southern Arizona, USA

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Sun Nov 01, 2015 2:12 pm

TaylorSFGuy wrote:Let's give Nissan some time to work this out before complaining. They aren't selling the cars with a 30kwh battery through to consumers yet.


Hi TaylorSFGuy:

I think it's important to recognize that historically a certain amount of speaking up seems to have been required to help Nissan understand some customers' points of view a bit better and sooner.

TaylorSFGuy wrote:It is unreasonable to expect them to have focused on replacement batteries at this point. I expect something to happen. Those of us that purchased 2011 models expected that a larger replacement battery would be an option in the future. At least I did. It may not be in time for me at less than 55% usable battery capacity.


Yes, it seems at first glance understandable to ask us to wait a few months, until Nissan can get its sea legs with sales of the new 30 kWh option, until we start clamoring for more answers on a 30 kWh retrofit. However, if we consider how long it took to get a higher-range option, the lack of competitive choice in the US market (until recently) during that time period, our experience with the importance of communicating customer points to Nissan, and the ticking clock of leases coming up, I think it helps explain why some of us would ask the questions sooner rather than later.

For me, I won't say it won't be in time, but probably not. Two things have changed for me:

1) 24 kWh no longer an option, even as a compromise or just for the adventure of being involved Exacerbated by the lack of DCQC or even L2 along some of my main driving routes.
2) New vehicle (whether leasing or buying) less attractive as an option - expensive to pay the depreciation on a new vehicle. I may have to settle for something like a used C-Max Energi PHEV (has more legroom than a Volt and used ones can be had for less than $10k-$15k if I wait carefully and just drive my not-great existing gasoline car until I am ready to buy back into PEV.

TaylorSFGuy wrote:Many of you are commenting on a situation that is likely years away from being a necessity.

I think we should give Nissan some time to work through this and develop a plan. As time goes by they have an interest to be in the replacement battery business.
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/vehicle.php?vid=229
2017-October: bght 2013 Volt
will buy 150+ mile BEV when they become less expensive on used market
josh@jlaz.com
opinions expressed are my own

camasleaf
Posts: 630
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:20 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2011
Location: Camas, WA

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:34 pm

TaylorSFGuy wrote:I think we should give Nissan some time to work through this and develop a plan. As time goes by they have an interest to be in the replacement battery business.


We also should send signals to Nissan about what we want. What about a pool of how may people that lease a 2014-2015 Leaf will buy the at the end of the lease if a larger replacement battery is promised to be made available in 1-2 years at certain price:

1 - Will not buy
2 - Will buy if a 40KWh or lager battery is available at $6000 or less
3 - Will buy if a 40KWh or lager battery is available at $8000 or less
4 - Will buy if a 40KWh or lager battery is available at $10000 or less
5 - Will buy if a 60KWh or lager battery is available at $8000 or less
6 - Will buy if a 60KWh or lager battery is available at $10000 or less
7 - Will buy if a 60KWh or lager battery is available at $12000 or less
2011 SLe 06/17/11 Over 79000 miles 70%SOH 15.2kWh
2018 Honda Clarity PHEV $120 gasoline in 4800 miles
5.7kW DC System

Turnover
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2012
Leaf Number: 410371
Location: Vancouver, WA

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:27 pm

It would make more sense to upgrade if one had a 6.6 kWh inverter. I believe both the 2011 & 2012 models didn't have that option. I am very willing to lease a 2016 with 30 kWh ... and a 6.6 or better inverter.
2012 SL:
03/30/16 43,300 mi - 383 QC's & 2467 L1/L2's 79% SOH
2013 SV (#410371) - Purchased 4/25/2016:
4/28/16 18,115 mi- 4 QC's & 705 L1/L2's 97% SOH
2/18/17 28,756 mi- 66.17 AHr, SOH 100%, Hx 101.45% 284 GiDs

jlsoaz
Posts: 605
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:57 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 24218
Location: Southern Arizona, USA

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:13 pm

camasleaf wrote:
TaylorSFGuy wrote:I think we should give Nissan some time to work through this and develop a plan. As time goes by they have an interest to be in the replacement battery business.


We also should send signals to Nissan about what we want. What about a pool of how may people that lease a 2014-2015 Leaf will buy the at the end of the lease if a larger replacement battery is promised to be made available in 1-2 years at certain price:

1 - Will not buy
2 - Will buy if a 40KWh or lager battery is available at $6000 or less
3 - Will buy if a 40KWh or lager battery is available at $8000 or less
4 - Will buy if a 40KWh or lager battery is available at $10000 or less
5 - Will buy if a 60KWh or lager battery is available at $8000 or less
6 - Will buy if a 60KWh or lager battery is available at $10000 or less
7 - Will buy if a 60KWh or lager battery is available at $12000 or less


Agree, a forum poll here might be interesting, but (IMO) would require some revisions.
First, I don't know that it will ever be possible to put higher than 30 kWh into an older Leaf. So, even if the poll wants to explore that possibility, the poll should at least include 30 kWh and a few options as to what some of us would pay for it.
Second, I think it might need to be a poll where a person could choose more than one option? I don't know.
Third, I think it should reflect higher price choices per kWh. For example, if Nissan were to make a 40 kWh Leaf retrofit available today, I think it's possible they might want to bill more than $250 per kWh for the battery and associated equipment and install.

Noting that I think I heard that a reason Nissan is not presently considering the 30 kWh retrofit option is that apparently it is claimed that it would involve more than the battery. Maybe we can get some more information as to how much trouble and expense that might be. Maybe some buyers would be willing to pay it.
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/vehicle.php?vid=229
2017-October: bght 2013 Volt
will buy 150+ mile BEV when they become less expensive on used market
josh@jlaz.com
opinions expressed are my own

Bufordleaf
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 8:59 am
Delivery Date: 20 Dec 2014
Location: Buford, GA

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:33 am

I like the idea of a poll, and agree we must at least include the 30 kWh pack as an option as it is the only confirmed upgrade (potential) at this point. For me personally, I have a 2015 Leaf with a 3 year lease that ends in Dec. 2017. Thinking about the longer range BEVs that should be available by that time, if Nissan doesn't give me an upgrade option there is very little chance I will buy the Leaf at the end of the lease, unless they discount the residual to a ridiculously low level. And as a double whammy to Nissan, not only will I not buy the Leaf, I will likely make my next BEV anything but a Leaf if they don't offer a battery upgrade path.
2015 Leaf S with QC

powersurge
Posts: 1007
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:22 am

I am a realist, and do not expect that Nissan will turn my Leaf into a Tesla when my battery ages out... What I would expect would be - a) That for we, the first generation Leaf owners (the real trailblazers in this deal) who took a chance and made Nissan the EV leader, that we should have NO TROUBLE getting a replacement 24KW battery for the next 20 years. 20 years seems to be the standard that a car company should support a vehicle with easily available parts. b) If during that time, more efficient battery technology is available, the PRICE of the 24KW battery should be lowered accordingly (e.g., $2-3k or so). At a low price in the future for the current battery, I would be very glad to keep my Leaf with its stock 24KW battery because the car would still have a great use to me as it is. And finally, c) When battery technology and capacity increases in the future, that we should be able to OPT for a greater capacity battery at the reasonable price of the battery at that time from Nissan.

As a technological savvy person, I followed the evolution of things like cassettes, 8 tracks, cds, computers, and dvds from the beginning. My Leaf is perfectly adequate as it is (for me) because it handles all my transportation needs. Unlike the speed of computers which we must replace to handle the increasing complexity of new software, My leaf will always be useful to me. If I can get my 2015 Leaf to last 20 years and get parts and batteries so that I get 200K miles for the money I spent on it, I will be a HAPPY CAMPER!

lasvegas95
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 9:59 pm
Delivery Date: 13 May 2015
Leaf Number: 025300
Location: Las Vegas

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:06 am

This article picked up on my Google Alerts today which is kind of interesting.

http://www.torquenews.com/1/company-off ... -160-miles

I did a search here of "Hybrid industries" and for their domain http://hybridindustries.webs.com/ and didn't see anything posted. Maybe I missed it.

While I am not sure I am a fan losing a significant area of the back of the leaf, it does show promise IMO that the secondary market will evolve and give EV owners more options.

I am looking forward to a year from now when some of the members here get their hands on a 2016 pack from a salvage car or similar.

brian0123
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:19 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Sep 2015

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:41 am

lasvegas95 wrote:This article picked up on my Google Alerts today which is kind of interesting.

http://www.torquenews.com/1/company-off ... -160-miles

I did a search here of "Hybrid industries" and for their domain http://hybridindustries.webs.com/ and didn't see anything posted. Maybe I missed it.

While I am not sure I am a fan losing a significant area of the back of the leaf, it does show promise IMO that the secondary market will evolve and give EV owners more options.

I am looking forward to a year from now when some of the members here get their hands on a 2016 pack from a salvage car or similar.


I saw this article as well and was curious about it. If true I'd love to know what they did to make it work and how it ties into the system. Does the guessometer show 160? Is there a way to swap depleted banks out instead of just doubling what's there?

jlsoaz
Posts: 605
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:57 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 24218
Location: Southern Arizona, USA

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:48 am

lasvegas95 wrote:This article picked up on my Google Alerts today which is kind of interesting.

http://www.torquenews.com/1/company-off ... -160-miles

I did a search here of "Hybrid industries" and for their domain http://hybridindustries.webs.com/ and didn't see anything posted. Maybe I missed it.

While I am not sure I am a fan losing a significant area of the back of the leaf, it does show promise IMO that the secondary market will evolve and give EV owners more options.

I am looking forward to a year from now when some of the members here get their hands on a 2016 pack from a salvage car or similar.


Yes, agree, this seems worth noting, thanks for pointing it up. I guess up-front I'm skeptical of the quality and such, as are others, but it's good to see folks pressing the matter. ... if Nissan or other OEMs won't provide certain things up-front then they can be provided aftermarket, and it could be argued that the rise of aftermarket vehicle modifications of all sorts (EVSE, battery kWh, etc.) is a sign of maturation in the industry overall.
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/leaf/vehicle.php?vid=229
2017-October: bght 2013 Volt
will buy 150+ mile BEV when they become less expensive on used market
josh@jlaz.com
opinions expressed are my own

merkurmaniac
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:02 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Oct 2013

Re: Price to retrofit a used 2011-2015 Leaf with a new 30 kWh (or higher) battery?

Tue Dec 15, 2015 2:44 pm

This was my take also. Its a shame to see a plenty functional 2011 (save a bad battery) LEAF from going to a junkyard, simply because the "tech" is worn out. If the factory refuses to upgrade old cars, then its great if an aftermarket source can.

The way I look at it, I have an Acura TL with 160,000 miles on it that is still going strong. The idea that an electric car is worthless and should be junked at 70,000 miles is sad. I hope to see an aftermarket company wade in at some point in the next few years and say, yeah, I can make that battery for $3,000 ! Then, a prefectly good car with a deficient battery will still have a lot of value. IMO, the hard part would be to get the OEM system on the car to deal with anything other than the specific OEM battery that came in the car. These guys seem to have hurdled that obstacle. Now, its economics that prove the next hurdle.

I don't own a Leaf Yet, but I will likely only consider a 2013 with the 6KW charger. It seems more future proof and utilitarian.

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