Apartment Dwellers?

What would you recommend to make EV's or EREV's more accessible to apartment dwellers? I live in a house, and charge mostly overnight, which is easy and convenient. But many people live in apartments, but would still like to see us use less foreign oil. Would you recommend a Leaf? Or a gen2 Volt? Or would you tell them to stick with a Prius? What would it take to make apartment dwelling more EV friendly? Bigger batteries, more 120v outlets, more L2 chargers, or more local fast chargers?

I'd advise making incremental improvements. Any charging is better than no charging, so put in the least expensive, lowest vandalism profile installations: a set of outdoor sockets for folks to plug their portable chargers in. For extra credit, having padlocked covers on them would be nice. And maybe having 240V available on the plugs (or some of them) better still

The only car that is well-suited to apartment dwellers who want to experience EV driving is the Prius PHEV - aka "Prius Plug-In." It will get 60mpg in careful driving if never plugged in. When you do get the chance to charge it, you can drive up to 15 miles in EV mode (with A/C available but not heat, other than the heated seats) and it will average in the seventies or higher, MPG-wise. It also charges quickly on 120 volts, compared to EVs, because the battery pack is small. Three hours from a wall outlet to full charge, and wall outlets are what is most likely to be available to apartment dwellers. Just make the the circuit can handle 12 amps continuous...

LeftieBiker said:

The only car that is well-suited to apartment dwellers who want to experience EV driving is the Prius PHEV - aka "Prius Plug-In." It will get 60mpg in careful driving if never plugged in. When you do get the chance to charge it, you can drive up to 15 miles in EV mode (with A/C available but not heat, other than the heated seats) and it will average in the seventies or higher, MPG-wise. It also charges quickly on 120 volts, compared to EVs, because the battery pack is small. Three hours from a wall outlet to full charge, and wall outlets are what is most likely to be available to apartment dwellers. Just make the the circuit can handle 12 amps continuous...

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Maybe that's why Toyota is pushing their Mirai hydrogen fuel cell approach. With no plug, the Mirai is equally suited to apartment dweller's and home owners.

I think the PHEV/EREV approach makes much more sense than fuel cells. It bothers me that we have this wonderful cool PHEV/EREV technology, but its not suited to most apartment dwellers. Charging while parked at work, is almost as convenient as charging overnight.

Interesting that you would suggest the plug-in prius as an ideal apartment dweller's car. I think I might agree that a high fuel economy EREV makes sense for apartment dwellers. 120v wiring is much cheaper to provide than 240v wiring plus 240v EVSE stations. But then you have to decide who is paying for the electricity for the 120v plugs. Another alternative is 120v plugs and a nearby local fast charging station.

I agree that a PHEV is the way to go today, but I might not jump to the conclusion that the PiP is the best. An apartment dweller should assess the reliability of his/her access to charging at home and/or at work. It's possible that he/she could charge exclusively at work, and end up burning next to no gas. Any of the PHEVs could be a good fit (Volt, Energi, PiP, e-Tron, ...).

Frankly, I would not recommend a BEV to an apartment dweller at this time. The charging situation is just completely out of their hands. Say the apartments and the workplace both offer L2 charging. That seems great, but what happens in 2 years when BEV sales start to really ramp up? Will they be able to keep up with demand? Unless then offer guaranteed charging for each tenant (e.g. a 120V outlet at assigned parking spots), it's just too unknown. With a PHEV, the person could do their best to keep it charged, but if something were to happen, they can always just revert to a relatively efficient hybrid mode.

Would assume the OP meant condo owners (multi-dwelling living places) as well ... in the Chicago downtown area there are a fair number of EVSE's in paid parking garages but would assume that if you were to pay $50K for a heated garage parking space (no, I'm not making this up; here is a typical listing) that a very nice 'option' that could be offered would be an EVSE for your city friendly EV.

http://www.atproperties.com/9034778...go-illinois-60611-nei?ref=tinyatp&pt=42947171

One other option on the PHEV aspect would be the new this fall Audi A3 e-tron sportback; this car although a plug-in, also has a 'mode' where the gas engine will charge the battery in situations where you don't have one available -- the European EV range is 31 miles but expect 15 to perhaps 25 (or maybe more in lots of stop & go) in the US.

Hopefully adding EVSE's won't be considered a 'luxury' option for apt/condo owners but it could be a start if enough interest was generated; property manager's would need to see that it would attract more buyers, perhaps even differentiating themselves from places who would never offer it as they don't understand the actual cost to them or minimal maintenance once installed versus retrofitting.

Levenkay said:

I'd advise making incremental improvements. Any charging is better than no charging, so put in the least expensive, lowest vandalism profile installations: a set of outdoor sockets for folks to plug their portable chargers in. For extra credit, having padlocked covers on them would be nice. And maybe having 240V available on the plugs (or some of them) better still

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That would be my vote, as it is easy to suply a 20A 240V outlet, add in a switch so it can be either 120V duplex or a single 240V outlet (Nema 15, and a Nema 6 /L6 20

Would be nice if Nissan made the evse's that come witht he car capable of both 120/240 auto selecting by defualt, but the evse mod does a nice job of it so long as the buyers are aware of it.

I agree that a PHEV is the way to go today, but I might not jump to the conclusion that the PiP is the best. An apartment dweller should assess the reliability of his/her access to charging at home and/or at work. It's possible that he/she could charge exclusively at work, and end up burning next to no gas. Any of the PHEVs could be a good fit (Volt, Energi, PiP, e-tron, ...).

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I was assuming that charging would not be available reliably, and so suggested the car that has the best fuel economy when not charged at all. The PIP really is the best choice for that situation, while the Volt is the best choice for those who can charge at work, but only at work. In the case of a 120 volt outlet being available at home, it really depends on the specifics of the situation. A Volt might be overkill if the commute is only a few miles and they don't take many trips, while a PIP would be inadequate for those who want a fully EV commute of more than 10 miles total (that's the pessimistic range).