Will 150-200 miles of range change your driving habits?

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asimba2

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 5, 2013
Messages
354
Location
Northern CA
My LEAF lease expires in 2017 and I am doing some financial planning so I can potentially buy my next EV with no or minimal financing. I estimate the range of potential purchase price could be anywhere from around $23,000 after $10k in rebates for something like a Gen II LEAF with a 30kW battery (the small battery option) to around $32k after $10k rebates for a no-options Tesla Model III. (Likely not available until late 2018 or even 2019.)

Given my experience with an 84-mile LEAF, how much range do I need in the EV I buy for the long term? More range = more cost.

I looked at my driving patterns and my typical daily commute is 38 miles + maybe 5-10 miles of errands. On weekends I occasionally do 65-70 mile trips. Once a year I do a 2,000+ mile trip and take the ICE car. About every-other month I take a trip that is around 135 miles; a drive that I currently do in an ICE car but would like to do in an EV, however with unreliable public charging, I won't do it in the LEAF. Then I realized that if I had a 200 mile EV I would probably do far more 'joyrides' than I do now, partly because the cost of electricity is so cheap compared to gas. Most of the destinations I would likely joyride seem to fall in the 135-150 mile range with several thousand feet of elevation change. That tells me that an EV rated for less than 150 miles won't get used any more than my 84 mile LEAF. But an EV with 200 mile range would get used much more often, something that I am factoring into my vehicle budget because more battery = more vehicle cost but more useful for my desires, but not necessarily for my needs. Just curious if anyone else has seriously evaluated both their actual use and their anticipated use with a big battery.
 
I don't know about significantly changing my driving habits..
I already drive 120+ miles per day in my Leaf. (Yes, I stop several times to charge.. Yes, I know...)

So, it will allow me to not have to do that, which I'm looking forward to... But I'm good with the current process. Wouldn't have bought the car if I wasn't.

The only real change (other than not stopping for hot chocolate/soda while I charge ;-) will be that we will be able to use the Leaf more.
Currently, we don't use the Leaf for things like trips to Portland.
I'm totally OK with the charge stops, but when it's my wife and I, we take the Subaru. She loves the way the Leaf drives/rides. but planning the extra time for charging (and extra time in case someone is at the charger or we have to use L2?).... Nope...

So right now, the Leaf is just a commuter for us.
Longer range and it will become our primary for all trips, except her birding trips in the mountainous areas, etc and bad weather. That's still the Suby...

desiv
 
For me? Probably yes. Currently the Leaf is just for local commuting / errands. I almost always stay within a single 80% charge for the day, my charging needs are met almost exclusive at home. When I venture to Rochester or Binghamton to visit friends or family, I just take the CMax and burn some gas. If I had 150-200 miles of range, I could make the round trip in EV, and would probably visit people more often.

I would also probably take a few more joy rides; the Adirondacks are about 60 miles away. A 200 mile range would let me drive out into the mountains, go for a hike, and then return home on a single charge. Again, I do this now, but burn some gas in the CMax. And I feel guilty the whole time.
 
It took me a lot of words to say <150 miles of range would not change much for me, but 200 miles would. And since I would probably do more driving, I would also likely put solar on my house, which would probably make me joyride even more often!
 
The only thing it would change is my ability to go to the airport and back on a single charge. Right now we use the ICE for that. Otherwise, when we're traveling as a family, we use the LEAF. The only other time the ICE is used is when my wife has to travel separately from me or if the parents are in town (6 people won't fit in the LEAF, especially since two require car seats).
 
It would be nice, but I would not need it, so it would depend on the extra cost. I traded in my only car for my leaf, so I get along with its range just fine right now. Getting to remote trailheads is the only time I want to go beyond the Leaf range. At present I am restricted to about 40 miles out, which can take me from full charge to as low as 10%, but the trip back I gain range due to it being all downhill. If I need to go further I either let someone else drive or use a car sharing service in my area to check out a Subaru for the day, so I would likely still do that and save $$$ overall.

That being said, someone in my family is looking to buy either a Model S 70D or 90D and I am jealous of the performance and range they will have. The payment, not so much.
 
For me all a question of cost/benefit. I use the Leaf for a local car (no commute - retired) and rarely do I get to 30% at the end of the day (and this charging to 80%). I probably would use it for longer trips but certainly not worth an extra $5-10,000.
 
As much as "range anxiety" is hyped and overblown by media and EV detractors, I'll be honest and say that it would be nice to (almost) never have to think about range.
 
For me, 200 mile range and fast charge capability has allowed me to replace all ow my ICE driving with Electric driving. I've also replaced some airline travel with electric driving.

The number of miles I drive has increased though, as I enjoy driving much more than I used to.
I also travel a lot more because I participate in many events (car shows, EV club events, Green Expo events, etc) that I never used to attend.

I don't think there is any one answer, everyone will react differently.
 
I will predict two scenarios:
1) No change and/or need for 200 mi Leaf in small towns. Where I live, the 80 mi (now degraded to 60 mi) Leaf works just fine, even with very little public charging. I anticipate it working well down to the 40 mi range. However, vehicles cannot easily access the DCQC network (100-120 mi to nearest). Thus, this is a great in-town vehicle, but regional travel is currently nearly impossible, and likely well into the future. Yes, a 200 mi Leaf will make travel to Seattle/Portland (but not Spokane) possible with the existing DCQC network. However, the first leg will require charging at a single Chademo unit station in rural eastern WA/OR. There is a large chance of station failure or being in use if more EVs are sold in the area. Multiple unit stations (like Tesla SC) are better options, but doubtful for CCS/Chademo in this area.
2) High need for a 200 mi Leaf in larger metropolitan areas (e.g., Sea/Tac, SFO/SJC, LA, etc.). These areas are so large, that daily driving can easily exceed 100-150 mi. In these areas a 200 mi EV with DCQC capabilities will be highly functional, especially with large numbers of destination L2 (work, malls, theaters, sports complexes, libraries, waterparks, etc.) and strategically-placed DCQC's near travel routes.

Personally, my only need for a 200 mi EV would be with high-speed charging at strategically-placed highway locations. I travel to Seattle & Portland several times per year. With such a vehicle my road trips would increase, with more vacations spent along the WA/OR/CA coast and BC mountains. Oregon did it right with their Aeroviroment DCQC stations strategically located every 50 mi in tourist areas. I look forward to more such trips. Hopefully other municipalities will realize the economic benefit of people like me spending money in their towns instead of flying off to NYC to see a Broadway play, DC to visit the Capitol and mall, or some other similar thing.
 
200 miles plus Supercharger would change everything since it would allow long trips with just one car. But a 150 to 200 mile LEAF would have little additional utility over the current short range one. It would allow a few longer local trips and be more convenient due to reduced opportunity charging but that's it.
 
Retired, we like to do day trips from Vancouver and occasional longer trips to the Oregon Coast or up to lower British Columbia. With longer range we could have a lot more fun on our day trips by skipping some of the more unpleasant chargers (like the one next to the Cascade Locks, OR graveyard w/o a restroom :roll: ). It would also let us go through the Olympia/Tacoma/Seattle/Everett area on I-5 without the hassle of the traffic and dealer chargers by staying in the HOV lanes. (We used to live in that traffic disaster area and would just as soon pass thru on our way to pleasant places.) I can also foresee more trips to Central and Eastern Oregon and Washington which have the beauty and fun driving only seen on car commercials. ;)
 
dgpcolorado said:
200 miles plus Supercharger would change everything since it would allow long trips with just one car. But a 150 to 200 mile LEAF would have little additional utility over the current short range one. It would allow a few longer local trips and be more convenient due to reduced opportunity charging but that's it.

I agree. Nissan is hinting at 100 kW CHAdeMOs, but I doubt they'll be any more aggressive at installing them than the ones they have now, certainly not like Tesla. Bound to give M3 the edge over LEAF2 and Bolt.
 
DNAinaGoodWay said:
I agree. Nissan is hinting at 100 kW CHAdeMOs, but I doubt they'll be any more aggressive at installing them than the ones they have now, certainly not like Tesla. Bound to give M3 the edge over LEAF2 and Bolt.

The single-head CHAdeMOs are not only unreliable but chances are you will encounter a queue to use it. The fact that Tesla superchargers usually have at least seven stalls might be reason for me to spend the extra money for the Tesla product.
 
asimba2 said:
DNAinaGoodWay said:
I agree. Nissan is hinting at 100 kW CHAdeMOs, but I doubt they'll be any more aggressive at installing them than the ones they have now, certainly not like Tesla. Bound to give M3 the edge over LEAF2 and Bolt.

The single-head CHAdeMOs are not only unreliable but chances are you will encounter a queue to use it. The fact that Tesla superchargers usually have at least seven stalls might be reason for me to spend the extra money for the Tesla product.

Yeah, that too. With a model 3 and supercharger access, a lot of one car families would be OK.
 
DNAinaGoodWay said:
I agree. Nissan is hinting at 100 kW CHAdeMOs, but I doubt they'll be any more aggressive at installing them than the ones they have now, certainly not like Tesla. Bound to give M3 the edge over LEAF2 and Bolt.
Yes. Chademo is utterly useless for me: the nearest one is 300 miles away, so what's the point? And with no redundancy, unlike Superchargers, they can't be relied on anyway.
 
200 miles would allow comfortable round trips to Denver without charging. Currently I only take the Leaf when I can conveniently charge while there. 300 miles would allow for round trips to the slopes in ski season though, not to mention my yearly road trips. I would opt for the 300 mi option if available in the model III, so that I can comfortably ditch the ice altogether.
 
I consider 200 miles EPA an honest, year-round 133. As I only use a car on out-of-town trips, often with considerable climbing and/or cold weather/snow, 200 EPA with ideally placed QCs would allow me to get to the Sierra Crest or the base of the east side with a single en route QC. I could probably live with that, provided I could maintain that range for at least a decade. Any trip further than 1 QC away and it's just eating too much of my free time to charge, and I'd want a car with faster refueling and/or longer range. I'd just as soon not have to deal with the extra hassle and planning, so will stick to my ICE (barring it being totaled in the interim, in which case I'd have to decide between an HEV, PHEV, diesel :eek: or just rent) until a BEV or FCEV comes along that can fully replace my ICE at a price I'm willing to pay.
 
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