Any chance the new 30Kwh battery is liquid cooled?

Nissan says you cannot retrofit a 30Kw battery into an older Leaf. If the new battery required connection to the HVAC system for thermal management, that would explain that. Secondly, I've now seen that they are offering a more robust capacity warranty on the 30Kwh battery. Which means they obviously expect it to last longer than previous batteries. Again, makes me think it is liquid cooled. Are there any other hints that might fit with this theory?

Highly doubtful, just because they would have made a big deal out of it on the first opportunity which they already had.

Valdemar said:

Highly doubtful, just because they would have made a big deal out of it on the first opportunity which they already had.

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Not necessarily. After all, praising the new liquid cooling too much would amount to admitting it was a mistake not to have it in the first place.

adric22 said:

Valdemar said:

Highly doubtful, just because they would have made a big deal out of it on the first opportunity which they already had.

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Not necessarily. After all, praising the new liquid cooling too much would amount to admitting it was a mistake not to have it in the first place.

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They don't have to admit it, those who care already know it, and those who don't, well, don't care.

No chance. Liquid cooling would have added significant weight, and taken significant space, and since they didn't redesign the car, I don't think they could have done it. Also, it's not enough to use a radiator, you need to cool below ambient so they'd have to use a heat pump or the existing AC to do the job.

adric22 said:

Nissan says you cannot retrofit a 30Kw battery into an older Leaf. If the new battery required connection to the HVAC system for thermal management, that would explain that. Secondly, I've now seen that they are offering a more robust capacity warranty on the 30Kwh battery. Which means they obviously expect it to last longer than previous batteries. Again, makes me think it is liquid cooled. Are there any other hints that might fit with this theory?

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Why jump to liquid?

If they changed the cooling the next cheapest option is forced air not forced liquid.

24 kWh pack is passive cooling (no airflow other than the bottom side of the car)

30 kWh might still be passive cooling or they may have added air flow path(s) to the pack from the top side.

I'd expect it is still passive because that is Nissan's philosophy but if they blink and change it I'd expect active cooling to be air based not liquid based.

Larger battery is in effect charging slower and should build less heat on L3.

I speculate no added cooling. The Nissan battery rep that I talked to said that Nissan was concerned about a/c cooling because of condensation. I also believe the 30Kwh battery would work in previous models no matter what they are saying at this point. They just don't want to offer it at this time. Think about it... the 2016 Model S is still 24Kwh. So are the 30Kwh models going to really be that inherently different? I wonder...

Evoforce said:

Think about it... the 2016 Model S is still 24Kwh. So are the 30Kwh models going to really be that inherently different? I wonder...

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They could at least offer it for all year models w/ 3.3 chargers. The 2016 S would still have a leg up over the older models and could show new potential buyers that Nissan cares about you even after you buy the car.

Nissan has already repeatedly shown that that do NOT care...

brian0123 said:

They could at least offer it for all year models w/ 3.3 chargers. The 2016 S would still have a leg up over the older models and could show new potential buyers that Nissan cares about you even after you buy the car.

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There is no financial incentive for Nissan to do this at this time.

Just because one battery cells need liquid cooling, doesn't mean that all types do. The lizard battery is far better than the earlier generations, and the 30kWh uses yet another type of cell. Also, as has been mentioned, a larger pack distributes the load (both in use and charging) among more cells (or at least lowers the demands on each individual cell) and so the heat generated is lower, all else being equal.

If LEAF 2 is to have any performance to compete with other EVs they may will need cooling because 0-60 in 10 seconds will not let the LEAF compete in many segments in 2017.

Performance aside (10 seconds to 60 MPH is fine with me), I think the fact that a Leaf can't 'Supercharge' across the country will show it to be non-competitive compared to an EV that has that ability. I'm talking Tesla. Which, of course has the performance AND the ability to charge across the country on long trips.

200 miles per charge? Great! Where u gonna spend the afternoon charging for the next day...

Or how are you gonna cool the pack after 4 or 5 QCs? I know in my current Leaf (which i love, by the way) I've seen a battery temp of 120 Degrees F during a road trip from Southern Oregon to the Mid-Valley of Oregon (250 ish miles and 4-5 QCs). Air temp was 90 degrees F. THAT's another non-competitive "edge" that Tesla has figured already.

Liquid cooling is a bit of a misnomer.

Cooling is done using refrigerant in a "liquid cooled" system. It is basically a refrigerator. It also consumes energy like a refrigerator. I was once trying to charge a Ford Focus Electric on L2 during a Phoenix summer day. It took hardly any charge because most of the energy was powering the cooling system.

Such a system would raise electric consumption even when not driving. Either the vehicle must remain plugged in to power the refrigeration system or the battery drains to power it.

Having a battery that is durable without requiring refrigeration is the ideal.

NeilBlanchard said:

Just because one battery cells need liquid cooling, doesn't mean that all types do. The lizard battery is far better than the earlier generations, and the 30kWh uses yet another type of cell. Also, as has been mentioned, a larger pack distributes the load (both in use and charging) among more cells (or at least lowers the demands on each individual cell) and so the heat generated is lower, all else being equal.

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Arizona users have already reported degradation on "lizard packs" in 2015. I wouldn't give Nissan a free ride just because they claim the new packs are better.

dhanson865 said:

I wouldn't give Nissan a free ride just because they claim the new packs are better.

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Btw, who said this and when? Andy Palmer in his farewell note?

Nissan is saying the new 60 kWh next gen battery isn't actively cooled either. So, that chances of the 30 kWh one being actively cooled is zero.

Valdemar said:

dhanson865 said:

I wouldn't give Nissan a free ride just because they claim the new packs are better.

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Btw, who said this and when? Andy Palmer in his farewell note?

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They've occasionally stated that the 2013 battery had minor improvements, later they said the "lizard battery" would be better and confirmed the 2015 was such. There were arguments about if all 2013s had the same type of packs and arguments about if all 2014s had all the same types of packs. Nissan won't say about mid year pack changes.

I could go back and give you URLs and quotes for multiple sources but I honestly don't think it's worth the paper you could print it on or the electronic equivalent.

In general Nissan PR and execs have repeatedly said mild cautiously positive statements over and over again. I'll believe it when we have 3 to 5 years of data for each battery pack revision (which leaves us waiting until 2018 at the earliest for any solid idea on how 2015 packs hold up).