Evoforce wrote:Do 2016 batteries have new technology that makes them more durable or are they just larger capacity?
It seems clear that many EV manufacturers, including Nissan are moving to NMC Li-ion battery chemistry. Battery University indicates that NMC offers BOTH higher capacity AND longer lifespan than LMO.
On top of that, much has been learned about Li-ion battery life extension through additives that can (and will) be applied as time marches on.
Perhaps more importantly, the industry has now learned how to assess Li-ion battery capacity retension in a few days rather than over many years. This breakthrough should greatly improve the ability of vendors to understand their products BEFORE the put them into the field.
Evoforce wrote:The reason I ask is because the 2015 lizard battery is not more durable than any of the previous batteries.
Do you have a link to where they state that they are not improved?
(BTW, notice that Nissan offers the SAME capacity warranty for the "Lizard" battery as all previous versions of the LEAF battery.)
Evoforce wrote:Do you have a link to where they state that they are improved beyond the fact that they are larger capacity and warrantied for longer before they reach 8 bars?
Truly the capacity warranty is a fully-sufficient statement to satisfy me, since it is a statement they will have to back up. Basically, the 2016 SV/SL LEAFs are guaranteed at the end of 10 years or 100,000 miles to retain as much capacity as a 2011-2015 LEAF has when showing all 12 capacity bars.
Maybe I could have worded my question more specifically. Has Nissan made any statements that the 30kWh battery is more durable than any that they have produced before it? Have they provided active cooling for this battery or improved it in any way other than adding another 6kWh? If not, have they given any indication that they will make durability improvements in the near future?
Lizard battery is not more durable than previous batteries and I would like to know if the 30kWh battery will suffer the same rapid degradation in hotter climates. 8 bars will take longer to reach with a 6kWh battery expansion, but from what I have heard they are not tying the warranty to percentage of loss as they have referred to in the past. Granted the warranty was triggered at 8 bars which is varying as to exact percentage of loss on all vehicles. Are you sure that warranty will trigger at what we consider was a new pack in 2015 or will it be triggered at the same level as the 8 bars are now? That equivalent would be 40-45 miles on surface streets going no faster than 45mph.
I am glad that others before me fought for our ability to get new replacement batteries for the 2011-2012 batteries. There is still no outright capacity warranty stating (new) replacement on model year cars produced after 2012. Repair to a minimum of 9 bars is what is stated.
I was hoping you had more information on the 2016 30kWh battery, that I do not have enough information on, at this point. I don't know if anyone does. My thought was that you might know something that I hadn't heard yet. As for my proof that the batteries (lizard) that were made to be more durable but are not, they are both sitting in my driveway.
Don't take this as if we don't love our cars, because we really do! Each leaf will be getting 7 years useable from the original battery including it's replacement battery in total. The next replacement for each car, one in another 2.5 years (one year old already) and the other car in 3.5 years (new now). At current prices and 2 cars, that will be over $12,000 relatively soon out of pocket. The 10 bar car that I bought out of California lasted (less than) 1 year before dropping to 8 bars. Every other major manufacturer is providing cooling to their traction batteries and Nissan is not measuring up.
This is the Achilles heal that Nissan has not yet addressed for those of us in hotter climate regions. Also the availability of quick charging (QC) and it's lack of maintenance or durability, is a problem.
Those that do not want EV's to succeed are eager to latch on to these deficiencies to dissuade others. I am an enthusiast so I am not so easily dissuaded.
On Ebay there is a 2011 Leaf for sale for $6,700. The dealer is selling this car as if it is near perfect. It is a 9 bar car with not enough time to qualify for free replacement. The capacity warranty expires 2/1/2016. $6,700 (car)+ $6,100 (battery) puts it at roughly $13,000 to make it useable in the near term. Some unsuspecting buyer is going to be angry, and rightly so, and be negative toward electric vehicles. My cars have new batteries and are of the same year, but more examples of the one for sale on Ebay, will continue to drag the value of my cars down the tube. And there will be more of them... We are just on the tip of that iceberg!
Bluebook, NADA, etc, are not yet set up to deal with EV's and I believe unfairly value them for a variety of reasons. This also leads to devaluation... How can they tell if a main component of the car was new or depleted when they compile a list of comparable vehicles sold to determine a fair value?
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 51,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi