Jedlacks
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:10 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Mar 2018
Leaf Number: 303628
Location: Kennesaw, GA

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:44 pm

GerryAZ wrote:I am one early adopter who is never going back to ICE (I never left). I added the 2011 LEAF to my fleet of vehicles in June of 2011 with no increase in my total insurance bill. Unfortunately, it met its demise and the 2015 added about $100 every six months to my bill. I choose the vehicle that I drive depending upon where I am going (one of my motorcycles, one of my 4X4 vehicles, or the LEAF). The LEAF accumulates most of the annual mileage due to commuting in the car pool lane. I am saving enough on gasoline, ICE vehicle maintenance, and wear/tear on the ICE vehicles to cover depreciation on the LEAF and pay for a new battery if I ever need it (it will be quite a while because the 2015 battery is doing much better than either the original or replacement battery in the 2011).

Gerry


And there a people here who decided to stop driving a Leaf, or had/have problems with Nissan, but they hang around the forum telling everybody else how Nissan sucks. I have been a member of other forums for my other ICE cars, and when I got rid of them I stopped going there.

In the morning I am going to help my neighbor change a cam sensor and a crank position sensor on an SUV. My garage is filled with tools in a huge rolling toolbox from maintaining my cars for decades.

I am also happy with my purchase, even though I am a late adopter. An EV is not for everybody, and I don't expect it to last forever. I consider it to be similar to the difference between a tablet and a laptop. No, I won't explain that because you all should know what that argument has been.
2018 SV
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LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4528
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Central FL

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Sat Jun 11, 2016 4:04 am

I don't hang around here because I think Nissan sucks, the ICEs we've bought since the LEAF have all been Nissans (which must please their marketing department to no end, their scheme worked :lol: ) I don't even think the LEAF sucks, I just think it needs some combination of improvement and cost reduction and hope to get one again when that happens. So I come here awaiting news on EV developments and generally enjoying reading what a lot of smart people have to say compared to other places on the web.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

tattoogunman
Posts: 141
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:17 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jun 2016
Location: Plano, Texas

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:58 am

GRA wrote:
tattoogunman wrote:I've been talking to some people on a Volt forum and there really aren't very many people having problems and if there are, they are minor. The Volt appeals to me because you always have that gas backup (and I know the point is to get away from that). They are also starting to show up quite regularly on the secondary market because everyone's leases are starting to end, etc. I guess my biggest fear with a pure EV is if I loose power at the house. I've been in situations over the last several years where we have lost power for a day or more (up to a week in one case) and I was thinking about those scenarios - what do I do with my pure EV if I can't charge it up at home and the battery is near dead? When the power goes out here, it almost always affects surrounding areas (like shopping centers) which may be my nearest charging spot(s). Then on the other hand, I am find Leaf's for sale in the area with under 10,000 miles on them for under $10K (cheaper than what the used Volts are going for). I may go test drive a Volt today to see how it drives and what not.

I've always felt that a BEV will need to have at least two days autonomy on the battery for normal/emergency usage, for the reason you state above, before the general public will accept them. That way, if the power goes out overnight while you sleep (or you forget to plug in, as has happened to even some dedicated EV owners), you can still get back and forth to work and/or to a hospital, and have time to make other arrangements in case the outage is prolonged. But a PHEV, especially a longer-ranged one like the Volt, buys you even more freedom/options - you're covered for several days either way. And if the electricity is out over a wide area, then unless gas stations in that area are required to have backup generators you won't be able to pump gas either, so it's nice to know you can drive 300 miles or more before that's an issue. If the outage is that prolonged, then FEMA etc. should be bringing in generators or providing fuel so that people can gas up and evacuate if needed.

One downside to the Gen. 1 Volt is the limited visibility to the front corners owing to the wide A-pillars needed to meet rollover requirements with the highly sloped windshield; another is that it only has four seats, if that's a problem. In Texas, you probably don't care about having 'Hold' Mode (available on 2013-2015) in addition to 'Mountain Mode' (2011-2015).

Other used PHEV options would be the Ford Fusion or C-Max Energis, if you can find any around. They're rated at 19 miles AER, which will cover most if not all of your routine needs, and also offer five seats, but they have limited cargo height (the battery was put under the cargo bay/trunk floor, which is several inches higher than the ICE/hybrid versions).

All that being said, the e-bike is your most efficient, lowest cost option for your commute (barring a regular bike, but 10 miles each way is more time and effort than the casual rider is likely to be comfortable with; serious cycle commuters will happily do that and a lot more). When speaking of an e-bike, is the one you have essentially a moped, or a pedelec (you have to pedal, but you can add various levels of assistance)?

Oh, yeah, re LEAFs in Texas. Don't do it, it's too hot. The people who will tell you the LEAF if fine without a TMS (Thermal or Temperature Management System) live in much cooler climates than you. For battery longevity in Texas, you want an active TMS, preferably liquid-cooled. The Volt has both, and IIRR the Fords also use a liquid-cooled TMS (might be AC-cooled instead; I forget). What you don't want is any BEV/PHEV that just uses ambient air blown by a fan, or one like the LEAF that has no cooling at all. Heat kills batteries.

About the only relatively affordable BEV I'd recommend for Texas would be a 2014 Spark EV, and they weren't sold there. The 2014s used a Lithium-Iron-Phosphate battery, which is more heat tolerant than the Li-Manganese-Oxide batteries used in the LEAF, the 2015+ Spark and most non-Tesla BEVs. The Sparks also have liquid-cooled TMS.


Thanks for the info. My e-bike is pedal assist - if you don't pedal, the motor doesn't work. I have a throttle override on it, but I've never used it.

tattoogunman
Posts: 141
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:17 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jun 2016
Location: Plano, Texas

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:59 am

Jedlacks wrote:
GerryAZ wrote:I am one early adopter who is never going back to ICE (I never left). I added the 2011 LEAF to my fleet of vehicles in June of 2011 with no increase in my total insurance bill. Unfortunately, it met its demise and the 2015 added about $100 every six months to my bill. I choose the vehicle that I drive depending upon where I am going (one of my motorcycles, one of my 4X4 vehicles, or the LEAF). The LEAF accumulates most of the annual mileage due to commuting in the car pool lane. I am saving enough on gasoline, ICE vehicle maintenance, and wear/tear on the ICE vehicles to cover depreciation on the LEAF and pay for a new battery if I ever need it (it will be quite a while because the 2015 battery is doing much better than either the original or replacement battery in the 2011).

Gerry


And there a people here who decided to stop driving a Leaf, or had/have problems with Nissan, but they hang around the forum telling everybody else how Nissan sucks. I have been a member of other forums for my other ICE cars, and when I got rid of them I stopped going there.

In the morning I am going to help my neighbor change a cam sensor and a crank position sensor on an SUV. My garage is filled with tools in a huge rolling toolbox from maintaining my cars for decades.

I am also happy with my purchase, even though I am a late adopter. An EV is not for everybody, and I don't expect it to last forever. I consider it to be similar to the difference between a tablet and a laptop. No, I won't explain that because you all should know what that argument has been.


That's the way it is on a Fiat board that I used to use (for the new ones) - people were always coming on there complaining, even after they had gotten rid of their cars. So least to say I don't go on there anymore ;)

edatoakrun
Posts: 5221
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:16 am

Jedlacks wrote:...there a people here who decided to stop driving a Leaf, or had/have problems with Nissan, but they hang around the forum telling everybody else how Nissan sucks. I have been a member of other forums for my other ICE cars, and when I got rid of them I stopped going there...

Not to mention the number of posts by those who have never owned or leased any BEV, and yet somehow feel compelled to share their repetitive and lengthy opinions...

="Jedlacks"...I am also happy with my purchase, even though I am a late adopter. An EV is not for everybody...

Well, I think a BEV will soon be for nearly everybody who wants a personal vehicle.

~Five years ago, BEVs were only appropriate for those drivers who did most of their driving in trips no longer than ~50-60 miles per day, or those very very few who had access to public DC charge sites.

Today, the DC infrastructure is much improved (though the USA still lags way behind more advanced nations) and battery capacity increases mean many can drive their BEVs 80-100 miles regularly without needing to recharge at public sites.

What doesn't seem to have changed much, is the psychological limitations of many ICEV drivers, whose addiction to petroleum fuels renders them overwhelmed with various anxieties (range anxiety, capacity loss anxiety, depreciation anxiety...) preventing them from rationally considering the superior alternative, a BEV.

Over five years and over 45k miles on my LEAF, and my only major disappointment is that I still occasionally drive or ride in an ICEV.
no condition is permanent

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TomT
Posts: 10605
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:37 am

Exactly! And until that time, Nissan is off my shopping list... I do strongly believe, however, that Nissan also needs to be more forthcoming than they have been in the past...

LTLFTcomposite wrote:I don't even think the LEAF sucks, I just think it needs some combination of improvement and cost reduction, and hope to get one again when that happens.
59,991 miles/12 bars/289 Gids/68.54 AHr/101% SOH/101.64% Hx 7May15 w/ new Lizard (barely made the warranty).
71,770 miles/12 bars/256 Gids/59.04 AHr/88% SOH/87.92% Hx 3Mar16 at lease return.

Now driving a 2016 Volt Premier.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13074
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:09 pm

Bleeding Edge!!

Some think that we should be way past that and I agree and soon some will be. Negating Tesla since money can really buy anything, all current EVs are on the bleeding edge.

The real difference here is that we are converting over from a transportation source that did its job very well but with consequences. HUGE slow moving consequences. Unlike the move to CDs, DVDs, etc., these were taking over formats that sucked! so we accepted a lot of bleeding edge mostly in the form of $39.95 movies and $400 players without complaint. Going back was simply not a viable option

but this is different. There is a level of compromise that is involved with EVs just as there is a level of compromise with gassers. One set of compromises we have accepted for decades. EV compromises we have only had the chance to experience for a few years and for some; they are still struggling with acceptance of that compromise

But there is one thing that is obvious; continuing gas is a HUGE mistake. The Volt is a great car and I know a handful of people who do very well with them, some burning less gas than I do (I have a gasser too...) but burning ANY gas is too much. We have gone way past the day where "cutting back" does a lot of good.

But in many cases, we simply don't have the choice. I don't. I would love to think I can wipe out gas completely, but with my current job, I cannot. So gas it I do. Not a lot mind you, but its still there.

Finally; We have been lulled with pathetically low gas prices and a ridiculously low cost to drive anything. Both should be raised a lot simply because lack of funding is taking money from public transportation, services, infrastructure support, etc.

Last 3 fillups

$2.089
$2.389
$2.459

Last 3 months cost to charge car
$22.39 2.11 cents per mile
$15.07 1.77 cents per mile (using the 90 day settlement)
$17.13 1.66 cents per mile

The settlement period ends next week so expecting costs to go back to the mid 20's. Occasionally I hit the low 30's on a busy month but the reality of the situation is that I am coming up to the limit of my lease mileage faster than I want to, so...
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 8743 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 111.39 Ahr , SOH 96.49, Hx 114.98
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Turnover
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2012
Leaf Number: 410371
Location: Vancouver, WA

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:54 pm

With our recent purchase of a 2013 Leaf, we have found going distances is much easier and less time consuming. So a week ago we gave our well and expensively maintained Subaru Forester to a relative. That relative has been putting most of its few yearly miles on it and states we can borrow it if ever necessary. The move saves us over $300 in insurance costs every six months even after losing State Farm's multivehicle discount. It also saves them buying a SUV. Its good to see it out of the driveway and being useful as a long distance (tri-county) work vehicle as well as a much more comfortable ride to pick up and take one of the Great Generation places she needs to go.
2012 SL:
03/30/16 43,300 mi - 383 QC's & 2467 L1/L2's 79% SOH
2013 SV (#410371) - Purchased 4/25/2016:
4/28/16 18,115 mi- 4 QC's & 705 L1/L2's 97% SOH
2/18/17 28,756 mi- 66.17 AHr, SOH 100%, Hx 101.45% 284 GiDs

cwerdna
Posts: 7991
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:16 am

cwerdna wrote:There's another guy @ work in that group who has a Volt. Long ago, I found he isn't driving it anymore and prefers the luxury of his (or his wife's) Lexus RX SUV. He then loaned the Volt to his mother-in-law. Sounds like she'll have it for probably the rest of the lease. He just doesn't care about the Volt or PHEVs. When the '16 Volt details came out, I asked him if he knew about it/cared. Nope. It sounds like he has no plans to get one either.

I bumped into the above guy in the restroom a few weeks ago. I asked him if his MIL still had the Volt. Nope. Long gone.

He said he *hated* his Volt. He summed it up to the "electronics" not working well. From the brief conversation I had, it his statement seemed to center around Bluetooth in his Volt not working well. Unclear what the issues were. He's probably the first person I've ever personally heard of who used the words hate about their Volt.

Sure, over time, I learned of a few folks on EV/PHEV groups or forums I'm on who had the (seemingly pretty rare) lemon Volt or problem Volt but it seemed like most everyone else liked or loved their Volt.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

RockyNv
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:35 am
Delivery Date: 17 Sep 2016

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:27 am

People with unrealistic expectations will be getting rid of them. While I was helping my daughter shop for a car recently two folks were trading in their Leafs because they could not drive 150 miles away without stopping to charge and could not find enough free places to charge in order to take long trips acting fairly incensed about it. Did they not read that range was less than 100 miles before they bought their Leafs and did they not check the charging infrastructure where they planned to drive first?

Its really an entry level electric city commuting vehicle for folks who drive 20 to 30 miles per day. When new you will be charging it 2 or 3 times a week on average while at the end of battery life just about daily. If your daily commute is over 50 miles round trip, if you have to drive in extreme cold or unplowed snow covered roads then the Leaf is not the best choice and after a time you will be getting rid of it for something more appropriate. Yes some willingly accept the hardship of pushing the envelope with them however that would have been an informed decision and the hardships would be considered self inflicted.

In my daughters situation not even a Tesla will suffice so ICE or Hybrid is what we looked for to meet her transportation needs. For myself since I drive around 22 to 25 miles per day and get free charging at work the used Leaf I purchased makes very good sense and so far appears to be a keeper but not as my only means of transportation.

You have to look before you Leaf er um Leap. ;>

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