cwerdna
Posts: 7993
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:35 pm

Related to another thread (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=21236), I don't think we had one on this subject. Please post your stories of people who got rid of their Leafs (mainly) or have some other EV/PHEV and don't care to continue with EVs/PHEVs.

I posted about this guy at my work at least twice:
viewtopic.php?p=405162#p405162
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=21120&p=446797&hilit=4runner#p446797

He couldn't be more glad to get rid of his Leaf (he turned it in early). He used to sometimes drive a Porsche 911, as well.

He replaced the Leaf w/a 4Runner but I don't know what he regularly drives to work now. Since he had an '11 or '12 Leaf, he had crap instrumentation (i.e no % SoC display, only the crap GOM and 12 fuel bars). I found out that it he was suffering from range anxiety (possibly) due to capacity loss and likely instrumentation (causing unnecessary range anxiety). I know which city he lives in but don't know the exact distance to work. It should be somewhere between 23 and 27 miles one way to work, almost all highway and we have free L2 charging @ work.

For awhile, his wife had been using the Leaf to commute (much further), where it's probably 42 - 45 miles to work (since I know the approx location of his wife's work), one way, almost all highway. L2 charging availability and reliability isn't that best at his wife's work. I believe the capacity loss/range anxiety/charging availability at work made it unsuitable for her, eventually.

He didn't know about gids. He couldn't tell me how many capacity bars he lost and I don't know the details of his range anxiety. We work at a tech company, BTW. I didn't know he got rid of it until 1-2 months after the fact.

My work and where he lives are hotter parts of the South Bay, so I wouldn't be surprised if he was down 1-2, possibly as many as 3 capacity bars at his early turn in.

There's another guy @ work in that group who has a Volt. Long ago, I found he isn't driving it anymore and prefers the luxury of his (or his wife's) Lexus RX SUV. He then loaned the Volt to his mother-in-law. Sounds like she'll have it for probably the rest of the lease. He just doesn't care about the Volt or PHEVs. When the '16 Volt details came out, I asked him if he knew about it/cared. Nope. It sounds like he has no plans to get one either.

Here on MNL, we've had numerous other horror stories of people who were steered into Leafs but it turned out to be totally unsuitable for them (e.g. a Chicago woman w/pretty much no charging @ home).
Last edited by cwerdna on Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

dm33
Posts: 688
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 4:43 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:15 pm

Not sure if I qualify. I love having a BEV. But don't like how expensive leases and purchase is right now. The Chevy Bolt sounds perfect but I'm debating how to bridge to it. Either try and extend our lease again and hope the Bolt is available in time, while assuming the risk of an out of warranty LEAF, or get an ICE. Right now we're leaning towards getting an ICE. Debating between a Mini Cooper (fun, marginally practical), or a Golf (good prices these days but situation will keep getting worse for VW for a while).

cwerdna
Posts: 7993
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:29 pm

BTW, I forgot to mention, the 1st guy w/the Leaf has mentioned on/off wanting to get a Model S, but AFAIK he still hasn't ordered.

Long ago, I'd sent him examples of Model S unreliability, esp. the drive units (and those in the Rav4 EV, as well). So, I guess for him, the long range and maybe the prestige of a Model S is enough?

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

kubel
Posts: 1608
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:38 am
Leaf Number: 19628
Location: Southeast Michigan

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:45 pm

I turned in my LEAF after 3 years and 8 months (extended the lease, but couldn't justify continuing to pay $325/mo for a car that is almost 4 years old). Now I'm back to driving my gas car that I had mothballed during the lease (2006 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor).

There are too few options at the moment. It's either continue my extended lease (not economical), or turn in my LEAF and buy/lease an obsolete, soon to be obsolete, or not available car. Let's review my practical options of electrically dominant cars that don't completely suck:

Used LEAF (cheap, but need $5500 in new battery soon, not a whole lot of range compared to 2017)
Used Volt (cheap, plentiful, not a bad option)
New LEAF (too expensive, soon to be obsolete, ridiculously high residual means expensive lease)
New Volt (only up to 2015, 2016 not available here in Michigan, 2017 won't be out until Spring)
Used Ford Focus Electric (cheap, batteries seem to hold up well, but lousy range, frustrating infotainment, not reliable)
New Ford Focus Electric (same as used, minus infotainment issues if you get a 2016).
New i3 (can get "cheap" low-mileage leases, but still out of my budget).
Used i3 (not widely available here).

That's it. There are no Soul EVs, no Spark EVs, no e-Golfs, no 500e. My best choice right now is a used Volt. Since gas is cheap, I figure I could wait a little bit longer and they will just get cheaper. And if I'm waiting a little longer, I might as well wait a full year and see if I can get a 200-mile Bolt or LEAF.
2012 Nissan LEAF SV
20% degradation in 42k miles
Leased 5-17-2012, Returned 1-15-2016


2017 Chevy Volt LT
Siren Red Tintcoat
Leased 10-21-2016

cwerdna
Posts: 7993
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:09 pm

kubel wrote:Used LEAF (cheap, but need $5500 in new battery soon, not a whole lot of range compared to 2017)

Used Leafs were cheap and don't necessarily need a new battery "soon". My $9,325 + tax and license '13 Leaf SV w/premium (build date 5/2013) still has all capacity bars and is still hovering between 89 to 91% Hx and SOH per LeafSpy. Unfortunately, the prices went up after I got mine. Not sure where they stand now.

If you get one from the Pacific Northwest, it'll be more $ but be even in better shape, in terms of battery.

True re: the last part...

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

kubel
Posts: 1608
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:38 am
Leaf Number: 19628
Location: Southeast Michigan

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:36 pm

cwerdna wrote:My $9,325 + tax and license '13 Leaf SV w/premium (build date 5/2013) still has all capacity bars and is still hovering between 89 to 91% Hx and SOH per LeafSpy.


I'm guessing your car was sheltered and has very low miles. Depending on where you live and how you drive it now, you may need a new battery in just 4 years.

My 2012 LEAF was at 80% SOH after 41,500 miles when I turned it in last week. I'm guessing by the 6th year I would be at around 70% SOH and would have been shopping around for a new battery. Probably sooner if I was driving 15,000 miles/year like I was for the first 2 years.
2012 Nissan LEAF SV
20% degradation in 42k miles
Leased 5-17-2012, Returned 1-15-2016


2017 Chevy Volt LT
Siren Red Tintcoat
Leased 10-21-2016

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13082
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:31 pm

this is the norm when gas prices are down. I see it as a temporary retreat. yes, this dip has lasted longer than ones in the recent past but I have too much faith in Mankind's ability to screw something up and drive prices back up again



http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2016/01 ... -take.html
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 8743 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 111.39 Ahr , SOH 96.49, Hx 114.98
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

pkulak
Posts: 758
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:08 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Sep 2013
Location: Portland, OR

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:43 pm

Count me in. I'm moving to an A3 E Tron. So, still a plug, but not much EV range. I commute by bike, so most trips are short and the car comes right back home, so I still forecast a lot of EV miles driven, but it sure won't be 100% anymore.

That new Chrysler minivan looks damn nice, but it's Chrysler and a brand new model. More than likely that thing has the reliability of a... Fiat. I'll be happy with my A3 until the field really opens up in a couple years.

kubel
Posts: 1608
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:38 am
Leaf Number: 19628
Location: Southeast Michigan

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:28 pm

People like me want to hold out and see what's coming just around the corner. We know the 2017 Volt will go nationwide in a few months. We know the Bolt will be out in less than a year. We know the IDS will likely become a 2017 LEAF in probably about a year.

This is the worst time to be trapped in a 3 year lease. It's even a terrible time to be trapped in a 2 year lease (if you can find one that doesn't break the bank). And since you're buying an end-of-production car, it would make a terrible time to buy a car for long term ownership, unless you can find a wicked deal. A lease transfer or a used car is really the only practical option right now.

I can say this: I don't think I will ever buy a car unless it has a plug and it's electrically dominant. I don't see how anyone could go back to an ICE after experiencing electric drive. Unless I'm buying a fun car. An MX5 is on my wishlist. But otherwise, a plug is in my future.
2012 Nissan LEAF SV
20% degradation in 42k miles
Leased 5-17-2012, Returned 1-15-2016


2017 Chevy Volt LT
Siren Red Tintcoat
Leased 10-21-2016

Evoforce
Posts: 820
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:45 pm

I think there will be plenty of older used leafs with brand new batteries. There are a bunch of 11's that are qualifying right now then the 12's and so on. Those will all make cheaper short term (or long term) vehicles to fill the void to the next newer cars due on the market. I would never go back to ICE. That is, in my mind, the stupidest thing that myself or others would do. There might only be a couple of good exceptions to that thinking. You and your job are further apart and there is no charging at work and/or no QC to go the distance. You don't have any money coming off lease to buy new/used or lease another electric, so you flop back into your gasser that is still sitting around, until you can raise the funds.
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

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