cwerdna
Posts: 9270
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:08 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:this is the norm when gas prices are down.

For the two cases I cited, it had nothing to do w/gas prices and they weren't that low. The guy that was glad to have gotten rid of his Leaf I removed from our EV list at work at end of Oct 2014. It'd been gone for 1-2 months already. Per http://www.sanjosegasprices.com/Retail_Price_Chart.aspx, during around that time, regular gas in my area was averaging between $3.70 and $3.88/gal.

The guy w/the Volt I knew about him for months, WAY before this gas price drop. I don't remember the approximate time but can ask.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 9270
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:18 am

kubel wrote:
cwerdna wrote:My $9,325 + tax and license '13 Leaf SV w/premium (build date 5/2013) still has all capacity bars and is still hovering between 89 to 91% Hx and SOH per LeafSpy.


I'm guessing your car was sheltered and has very low miles. Depending on where you live and how you drive it now, you may need a new battery in just 4 years.

Mileage wasn't that low and my climate isn't that ideal compared to the Pacific Northwest (e.g. Seattle area).

I posted stats of the '13 Leaf I returned and the one I bought at viewtopic.php?p=431208#p431208.

Whoops, I was slightly off on what I stated earlier. I have a screenshot from 1/10/16 (will take another reading tonight) showing
Miles: 29,054
Ahr=60.36
SOH=92%
Hx=92.54%

There are some folks on https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf/ asserting that the '13 Leaf batteries (probably past a certain month) are holding up much better than any '11s or '12s. There's a claim there that they know of some '13s with past 75K miles that still have all capacity bars and that never happened w/'11s and '12s up there.

viewtopic.php?p=449455#p449455 shows amazingly good stats, but it makes me question the validity/accuracy of Ahr, SOH and Hx readings in certain (many?) circumstances. NegativeCarbon's Leaf was (IIRC) bought in December 2013 and built just a few weeks earlier. AFAIK, he resided in northern NY before he embarked on his 48 state drive.

But yeah, it's possible for me that in 4 years, my battery may be degraded to the point where its range autonomy is too poor for my uses.
kubel wrote:My 2012 LEAF was at 80% SOH after 41,500 miles when I turned it in last week. I'm guessing by the 6th year I would be at around 70% SOH and would have been shopping around for a new battery. Probably sooner if I was driving 15,000 miles/year like I was for the first 2 years.

Yeah, you obviously had more miles than mine and your car's older.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Evoforce
Posts: 882
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:50 am

cwerdna wrote:
kubel wrote:
cwerdna wrote:My $9,325 + tax and license '13 Leaf SV w/premium (build date 5/2013) still has all capacity bars and is still hovering between 89 to 91% Hx and SOH per LeafSpy.


I'm guessing your car was sheltered and has very low miles. Depending on where you live and how you drive it now, you may need a new battery in just 4 years.

Mileage wasn't that low and my climate isn't that ideal compared to the Pacific Northwest (e.g. Seattle area).

I posted stats of the '13 Leaf I returned and the one I bought at viewtopic.php?p=431208#p431208.

Whoops, I was slightly off on what I stated earlier. I have a screenshot from 1/10/16 (will take another reading tonight) showing
Miles: 29,054
Ahr=60.36
SOH=92%
Hx=92.54%

There are some folks on https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf/ asserting that the '13 Leaf batteries (probably past a certain month) are holding up much better than any '11s or '12s. There's a claim there that they know of some '13s with past 75K miles that still have all capacity bars and that never happened w/'11s and '12s up there.

viewtopic.php?p=449455#p449455 shows amazingly good stats, but it makes me question the validity/accuracy of Ahr, SOH and Hx readings in certain (many?) circumstances. NegativeCarbon's Leaf was (IIRC) bought in December 2013 and built just a few weeks earlier. AFAIK, he resided in northern NY before he embarked on his 48 state drive.

But yeah, it's possible for me that in 4 years, my battery may be degraded to the point where its range autonomy is too poor for my uses.
kubel wrote:My 2012 LEAF was at 80% SOH after 41,500 miles when I turned it in last week. I'm guessing by the 6th year I would be at around 70% SOH and would have been shopping around for a new battery. Probably sooner if I was driving 15,000 miles/year like I was for the first 2 years.

Yeah, you obviously had more miles than mine and your car's older.



Negative Carbon told me that he has three bad cells. He also told that to a Nissan Regional Manager and wanted replacement of those three cells. I didn't ascertain if he accurately knew what he was talking about.
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

cwerdna
Posts: 9270
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:14 am

cwerdna wrote:My $9,325 + tax and license '13 Leaf SV w/premium (build date 5/2013) still has all capacity bars and is still hovering between 89 to 91% Hx and SOH per LeafSpy.

cwerdna wrote:Mileage wasn't that low and my climate isn't that ideal compared to the Pacific Northwest (e.g. Seattle area).

I posted stats of the '13 Leaf I returned and the one I bought at viewtopic.php?p=431208#p431208.

Whoops, I was slightly off on what I stated earlier. I have a screenshot from 1/10/16 (will take another reading tonight) showing
Miles: 29,054
Ahr=60.36
SOH=92%
Hx=92.54%

The above was taken after some driving. Was charged to 100% on the afternoon of 1/9/15. Was some more charging (probably not to 100%) that evening.

Interestingly, my stats tonight (1/19/16) are these:
Miles: 29,380
Ahr=58.85
SOH=89%
Hx=89.49%

This was after a charge only to 80% and a bunch of driving. There was a charge to 100% (w/bounces all done) on Friday 1/15/16. Over the weekend, I charged a few times but definitely not to 100%.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

asimba2
Posts: 354
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:15 am
Delivery Date: 01 Jan 2014
Location: Northern CA

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:30 am

cwerdna wrote:Interestingly, my stats tonight (1/19/16) are these:
Miles: 29,380
Ahr=58.85
SOH=89%
Hx=89.49%



My stats are nearly identical. Since May of 2015 when I first started tracking via Leafspy, my 2013 Leaf has only dropped from 58.64 amp hours to 58.2. Not bad considering I live in Sacramento in a very hot climate.

But this thread is about going back to a gas car. I may go back to driving my SUV temporarily until I can get a good deal on a 200 mile EV after my lease is up in January 2017. But I'm sold on the quiet, non-polluting, torquey and nearly maintenance-free ride.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13841
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:03 pm

cwerdna wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:this is the norm when gas prices are down.

For the two cases I cited, it had nothing to do w/gas prices and they weren't that low. The guy that was glad to have gotten rid of his Leaf I removed from our EV list at work at end of Oct 2014. It'd been gone for 1-2 months already. Per http://www.sanjosegasprices.com/Retail_Price_Chart.aspx, during around that time, regular gas in my area was averaging between $3.70 and $3.88/gal.

The guy w/the Volt I knew about him for months, WAY before this gas price drop. I don't remember the approximate time but can ask.


my comment was more a generalization than anything but I am seeing people disillusioned about EV tech mostly because of the continuing lack of support.

We still have BS hoops for charging stations to build (proven by the fact that Tesla built theirs out with little opposition including SCs in MI) and ICEing, etc.

Too many feel they are using alien technology. Its like wearing a Seahawks Jersey to a 49er game. it doesn't matter how right it is when you are an island in the ocean... (ok, maybe the 49ers were not the best example but you know what I mean)
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GlennD
Forum Supporter
Posts: 1491
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:14 pm
Delivery Date: 20 May 2013
Leaf Number: 410357
Location: Anaheim

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:04 am

I looked at the subcompact Honda Fit vs my Mercedes B. Using 2.5KW per mile and my electric rates at .18 per KWH after all costs added and Consumer Reports 30 MPG for the Fit I get my cost at 12.5 cents per mile vs the Fit at 8.33 cents per mile. The B is a good car for comparison since the efficiency meter shows charging power. Tony Williams says to multiply it by 1.2 to compare to other cars. That assumes the gas cost is $2.50 per gallon. Gas is expensive in Southern California.

On an absolute basis switching to a Fit makes sense but going from a luxury car to a subcompact will not work for me. A more efficient car like the Leaf is likely a wash.

I can live with higher costs for my car. After 13 months I still love it. I know it is large and heavy but so what.

Anaheim has no tiers and I do not have Solar power. Both charging at reduced rates or Solar would reduce my rates. I am in a Townhouse surrounded with trees on common property so Solar is not the answer for me. The PUC is trying to pressure Anaheim's Utility into tiers so maybe someday I can charge late at night cheaper.
:
2013 Pearl White SL Premium
Traded for a Cirrus White 2014 Mercedes B (totaled)
2016 Urano Gray eGolf SEL w/ drive assist
Loved the VW but it sat too low for my old body
Back to a Cirrus White 2017 B250e
White Ioniq limited.It sits just fine

User avatar
LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4669
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Central FL

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:19 am

The early adopter penalty lease price left a bad taste in my mouth. I often wonder what was I thinking: $18k in lease payments to drive a car for three years and give it back to them. Not to mention the Leaf cost more to insure. Now for $50/month less I've got a car that will be paid off after the same three years. True I'm spending $55/month for gas instead of $28 for the electric but somehow I'll live. Not to mention I can drive it longer distances and I don't have to think about lease miles or worry about having to pay for a little scratch or dent.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13841
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:49 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:The early adopter penalty lease price left a bad taste in my mouth. I often wonder what was I thinking: $18k in lease payments to drive a car for three years and give it back to them. Not to mention the Leaf cost more to insure. Now for $50/month less I've got a car that will be paid off after the same three years. True I'm spending $55/month for gas instead of $28 for the electric but somehow I'll live. Not to mention I can drive it longer distances and I don't have to think about lease miles or worry about having to pay for a little scratch or dent.


yeah... me too but then again a sale for a blu ray player for $79 forced me back into the "consumer herd" which allowed me to dump my $350 standard definition DVD player but not without a lot of anger and regret...
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

dm33
Posts: 690
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 4:43 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:11 am

We ordered a Mini Cooper in January, it arrived this past week and we bought it yesterday. Starting the return process for the LEAF.
A real shame. I never thought I'd go back to an ICE. Feels like such a step backwards. But 2016 rates have been too high, there's still a new 2015 for sale for too much, our residual is still almost $20,000. And my commute is potentially more erratic requiring much longer range. No long range option yet available.
I hope I can get back into an EV without losing my shirt on the Mini. We may get a Pacifica EV to replace our 10yr old Grand Caravan, although its still doing well at 140k.

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