DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13841
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:04 am

Evoforce wrote:With more affordable 200+ mile EVs about to land on our laps, for me personally, I would not go back. I have never purchased cars new, but the BOLT looks very tempting... They may be in such high demand that a year old car may still hold a high value.

A Tesla 3 is tempting but when will it make it to market and extras add up fast. Nissan is playing catch-up and who knows now what's in their near future pipeline. I still have plenty of gas vehicles but they don't get driven. My Jeep tows the boat and travel trailer and my Harley with sidecar is fun but neither get used much now. I have thought of converting Harley to hybrid.

My other gassers just sit rotting away in the sun... I have no need for a hybrid, except for a truck, unless a pure electric truck comes out at an affordable price and great range.



any comment on the recent rumors that the Bolt is more of a "mirror" image than reality?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

roguenode
Forum Supporter
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Sep 2015
Leaf Number: 322627
Location: Foothills west of Boulder, CO

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:11 pm

For me, the Leaf has 3 main disadvantages:
1) Range - fine in the summer, not quite what I need in the winter
2) Charging network - no level 3 chargers on major routes I would like to travel a half dozen times a year
3) Battery degradation - summer range won't even be enough for me an a few years

I will not go back to ICE. That leaves the Bolt and Model 3 as known upcoming EV's with longer range. Both have enough range for me year round and should have much less battery degradation than the Leaf. The Bolt is likely out due to a lack of CCS fast chargers, so a Model 3 with supercharger access (or a CPO Model S in a couple of years) may be my next car by default.

Tesla seems to be the only manufacturer that understands the importance of a rapid charging network in EV adoption.

cwerdna
Posts: 9276
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:53 am

cwerdna wrote:I forgot about another guy at work who I don't see much anymore. He had a '11 or '12 Leaf because of his girlfriend's work or something (company car?). I think she left that job or she had to turn that car in, for whatever reason. So, no more Leaf for him. I believe this is over a year ago. When I do see him, sometimes ask if he's going to get another Leaf or EV. He doesn't seem interested at all or (IIRC) gives some excuse of "no time".

I spoke to the above guy the other day. He still has no EV and still doesn't seem to care. He also driver a 4Runner now. The girlfriend is now his wife.

I said to him that he's not an EV enthusiast, to which he claimed he is. I countered, "well, you don't have one now and you don't seem to care to get one." He then mentioned how gas prices are cheap now, mentioned BMWs as being "cool" or something like that and mentioned I think the M3 and 635i. He seems to want a 6-series.

He mentions if they need to go on a long-road trip, they'd take his wife's PiP, for which she didn't bother get to green HOV stickers. CA has hit the issuance limit and it's not looking likely the cap will be raised again.

Can you imagine the general apathy outside of strong EV/PHEV regions? I'm in California, in Silicon Valley!

At last check, we had over 190 plug-in vehicles on our internal list at work and PLENTY of charging stations at work. Not all of them show up every day and some are mystery cars. And, I know some are missing from the list as well.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 2020
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:12 pm

cwerdna wrote:
cwerdna wrote:I forgot about another guy at work who I don't see much anymore. He had a '11 or '12 Leaf because of his girlfriend's work or something (company car?). I think she left that job or she had to turn that car in, for whatever reason. So, no more Leaf for him. I believe this is over a year ago. When I do see him, sometimes ask if he's going to get another Leaf or EV. He doesn't seem interested at all or (IIRC) gives some excuse of "no time".

I spoke to the above guy the other day. He still has no EV and still doesn't seem to care. He also driver a 4Runner now. The girlfriend is now his wife.

I said to him that he's not an EV enthusiast, to which he claimed he is. I countered, "well, you don't have one now and you don't seem to care to get one." He then mentioned how gas prices are cheap now, mentioned BMWs as being "cool" or something like that and mentioned I think the M3 and 635i. He seems to want a 6-series.

He mentions if they need to go on a long-road trip, they'd take his wife's PiP, for which she didn't bother get to green HOV stickers. CA has hit the issuance limit and it's not looking likely the cap will be raised again.

Can you imagine the general apathy outside of strong EV/PHEV regions? I'm in California, in Silicon Valley!

At last check, we had over 190 plug-in vehicles on our internal list at work and PLENTY of charging stations at work. Not all of them show up every day and some are mystery cars. And, I know some are missing from the list as well.


I understand people going back to gas, but this guy considers himself an enthusiast? That's a hard pill to swallow.

One of the PiP drivers I work with has turned it in for a Rav4. Another PiP driver never plugs in. But the old PiP was the weakest plug-in on the market and probably captured a lot of normal Prius buyers.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

GRA
Posts: 10365
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:19 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:
cwerdna wrote:<snip>
Can you imagine the general apathy outside of strong EV/PHEV regions? I'm in California, in Silicon Valley!

At last check, we had over 190 plug-in vehicles on our internal list at work and PLENTY of charging stations at work. Not all of them show up every day and some are mystery cars. And, I know some are missing from the list as well.

I understand people going back to gas, but this guy considers himself an enthusiast? That's a hard pill to swallow.

One of the PiP drivers I work with has turned it in for a Rav4. Another PiP driver never plugs in. But the old PiP was the weakest plug-in on the market and probably captured a lot of normal Prius buyers.

Weak as the original PiP was as a PHEV, every used one on the market allows people who would never be able to afford a new PEV the option of getting one. IME a lot of environmentally-motivated people are students with limited incomes.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

tattoogunman
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:17 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jun 2016
Location: Plano, Texas

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:27 pm

GRA wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:
cwerdna wrote:<snip>
Can you imagine the general apathy outside of strong EV/PHEV regions? I'm in California, in Silicon Valley!

At last check, we had over 190 plug-in vehicles on our internal list at work and PLENTY of charging stations at work. Not all of them show up every day and some are mystery cars. And, I know some are missing from the list as well.

I understand people going back to gas, but this guy considers himself an enthusiast? That's a hard pill to swallow.

One of the PiP drivers I work with has turned it in for a Rav4. Another PiP driver never plugs in. But the old PiP was the weakest plug-in on the market and probably captured a lot of normal Prius buyers.

Weak as the original PiP was as a PHEV, every used one on the market allows people who would never be able to afford a new PEV the option of getting one. IME a lot of environmentally-motivated people are students with limited incomes.


I just had this conversation with someone yesterday (buying used) as I think a growing secondary market is going to be the main way to get people into EV. I'm warming to electric cars and have just recently seriously considering getting one. However, my credit is garbage nowadays and I'm a born again full time college student in my 40's having to work part time at a grocery store - not really the best candidate for a $36K+ EV you know? Add to that fact that I drive a Fiat 500 in which I'm already getting on average, in sport mode, 36-38mpg in the city and that easily goes up into the 40's on the highway, it's really hard to justify the switch. Skipping gas stations and routine maintenance (that I usually do myself anyway) is a definite bonus. A local dealer has a low mileage 2015 Leaf that I thought about looking at, but who knows? I've seen Volts for under $12K out here and another dealer has an i-Miev for like $9600 (but I understand they've been discontinued for the U.S.). I also live in Texas and wonder how these cars would hold up in the extreme heat and more or less mandatory A/C use all the time.

User avatar
LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4669
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Central FL

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:41 pm

I wouldn't advise anyone on a tight budget to get into the game now. Lease rates aren't good any more and you'll be stuck in a perpetual payment trap. EVs are more expensive to insure, at least for me, an extra $500/year eats up any fuel savings. If you buy with the intent of long term ownership you face an uncertain future down the road with battery degradation, potentially costly repairs and ridiculous depreciation that can leave you trapped upside down in a car that won't get you to work.
The technology is exciting and the future is bright, but leave it a while longer to early adopter folks with deeper pockets.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

tattoogunman
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:17 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jun 2016
Location: Plano, Texas

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:46 pm

LTLFTcomposite wrote:I wouldn't advise anyone on a tight budget to get into the game now. Lease rates aren't good any more and you'll be stuck in a perpetual payment trap. EVs are more expensive to insure, at least for me, an extra $500/year eats up any fuel savings. If you buy with the intent of long term ownership you face an uncertain future down the road with battery degradation, potentially costly repairs and ridiculous depreciation that can leave you trapped upside down in a car that won't get you to work.
The technology is exciting and the future is bright, but leave it a while longer to early adopter folks with deeper pockets.


That's the vibe I'm getting the more I read up on them.

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 2020
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:31 am

tattoogunman wrote:
I just had this conversation with someone yesterday (buying used) as I think a growing secondary market is going to be the main way to get people into EV. I'm warming to electric cars and have just recently seriously considering getting one. However, my credit is garbage nowadays and I'm a born again full time college student in my 40's having to work part time at a grocery store - not really the best candidate for a $36K+ EV you know? Add to that fact that I drive a Fiat 500 in which I'm already getting on average, in sport mode, 36-38mpg in the city and that easily goes up into the 40's on the highway, it's really hard to justify the switch. Skipping gas stations and routine maintenance (that I usually do myself anyway) is a definite bonus. A local dealer has a low mileage 2015 Leaf that I thought about looking at, but who knows? I've seen Volts for under $12K out here and another dealer has an i-Miev for like $9600 (but I understand they've been discontinued for the U.S.). I also live in Texas and wonder how these cars would hold up in the extreme heat and more or less mandatory A/C use all the time.


Good for you, getting back in the game like that in your 40s! You're an inspiration!

I mostly agree with LTLFTcomposite. If your Fiat is running well and requires no major service, I highly recommend waiting until you actually need a car. Your cheapest option is to keep the 500 running well, and enjoy averaging 35-40 MPG on a tank.

If you do dabble in EVs, I'd personally recommend a used Volt. Especially if you can find one for <$12k. Its TMS has worked really well in hotter climates than yours, and there are signs that the car should easily last 20 years / 300,000 miles on the original battery. Even if the AER eventually degrades, you have a generator to keep you going. Today's BEVs aren't there yet. I suspect they will be within a generation or two (only about 5-10 years from now).
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

powersurge
Posts: 1325
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: people getting rid of their Leafs/EVs/PHEVs and going back to ICEVs

Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:18 am

HOLY CRAP!

The tone that I hear on this topic is so depressing that I am shocked a 'LEAF FORUM" would have these negative opinions!
It sounds like a bunch of Kindergarten kids at the playground who are picking up their toys and going home!

First, anyone who is "getting rid of their leaf" because of possible future problems, $500 more insurance (you must be young with marks on your driving record), "GAS IS CHEAP" or just "it's not the right time" have been seduced by the media and brainwashed.

Especially young people (under 40) are still interested in instant gratification and have never ever been exposed to the past phases of the petroleum history.

We all must embrace the right to an "alternate" fuel vehicle, while knowing that we are not increasing the petroleum shortage in the near future. I have a Leaf and it is the best car I have ever owned. Why? because I can live my life just as well as the gas guzzler public, and not spend a drop of petroleum. In the life of my Leaf, I will NOT use 10,000 gallons of petroleum (that is one gas tanker truck full).

Isnt that a reason to tolerate all of the "NEGATIVES" (which are not negatives, but current limitations) of the product we own.

This is not an all or nothing situation. In the futures, EVs will get better and better, but we must adopt the current technology as a great success. For example, the first internal combustion cars were crap, they were bicycles with motors on them with a top speed of 20 miles per hour. The first consumer computers were crap, with only a green screen where you could just type. BUT these early products were magic because they could do something that could never be done before..... The EV is MAGIC, and I personally will be "IN" on this roller coaster ride for the rest of my life..

Years from now everyone will be saying, "Remember the Leaf?", and you could say that your were part of that!!

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