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IssacZachary
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Re: 2013 S - 80 or 100%?

Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:50 pm

Ok. Thanks!

But wouldn't the battery warm up during the charge and then be warmest after 80% clear up to 100%? I do have a level two EVSE and it's rated at 7kW, which is plenty for the 6.6kW onboard charger. Wouldn't that warm the battery before it got near 100%?

I mean my last job from my house is only a mile or two away, and it's also my longest job, about 6 hours. Plus the maximum speed limit between the job and my home is 35mph. It would seem it would get more heat from charging at home than from the drive home.

Before my last job I have several others here and there. Which means short drives here and there, in a town with a maximum speed limit of 35mph. I have reached the low battery warning a few times. But my schedule changes so much I never know how far I'll drive in a day. If I think I might run out I go charge for an hour during lunch. Or even take a coffee brake and charge up for 15 or 30 minutes. I'm glad I got a 6.6kW charger!

It just seems that most days I could have made the whole day off of 100% charge, or even a day or two where I have to head 30 miles out of town and then 30 miles back first thing in the morning, at which point I have to charge getting back and things get a little sketchy if I didn't charge up 100% the night before. It also seems that if it's a day where I charged to 80% and now it's looking like I need to charge during lunch that's the day my wife wants to go eat at a restaurant that's nowhere near the home or the town's public charging station.

It just would make things a bit easier if I could charge to 100% every night and not fear it's hurting the battery.
2013 SL, 40,000 miles, 12 bars.

Doomsday
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Re: 2013 S - 80 or 100%?

Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:27 pm

In theory most of your heat is going to be during the charge to probably closer to 90%. The rest of the charge is going to trickle charge in. I only say in theory because its only as good as the charger. A crappy charger might try to force it in and cause the battery to heat up more and damage it. I do not think this is an issue with the nissan leaf as its on board charger seems to do very well.

LeftieBiker
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Re: 2013 S - 80 or 100%?

Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:32 pm

It just would make things a bit easier if I could charge to 100% every night and not fear it's hurting the battery.


It's not hurting it in Winter. It's not going to hurt it in Summer, either, if the pack isn't getting to 7 bars or higher. The only time I'd avoid a 100% charge in Winter would be if I knew the car would sit, fully charged, for days. In that case I'd just run the climate control for 15 minutes.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

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IssacZachary
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Re: 2013 S - 80 or 100%?

Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:59 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
It just would make things a bit easier if I could charge to 100% every night and not fear it's hurting the battery.


It's not hurting it in Winter. It's not going to hurt it in Summer, either, if the pack isn't getting to 7 bars or higher. The only time I'd avoid a 100% charge in Winter would be if I knew the car would sit, fully charged, for days. In that case I'd just run the climate control for 15 minutes.


Ok. Thanks!

I guess too that if Nissan stopped making the 80% an option (that's what I understand, correct?) then I have nothing to fear.

I understand how leaving it at 100% for long periods of time can damage the battery. I've got a 10 year old laptop the battery started to go south on it. Someone suggested discharging it to 50% and removing it until I need it. It seems it hasn't lost any more capacity several years since then. But I've seen laptops lose their battery completely because they're always left plugged in.

In my case, like I said, I go right after I finish charging. :)
2013 SL, 40,000 miles, 12 bars.

LeftieBiker
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Re: 2013 S - 80 or 100%?

Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:21 pm

The don't worry - enjoy the car. As for why Nissan dropped the 80% charge option, many of us think that it's because the EPA gave the car a lower overall range rating when they implemented it.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

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IssacZachary
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Re: 2013 S - 80 or 100%?

Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:15 am

Another thing to think about. When it does get cold enough to need the battery warmer, the battery level had to be at least 30%. So if I charge to only 80% I would get to 30% much quicker.

At least I can plug in at my last job with my portable EVSE in case that does happen.
2013 SL, 40,000 miles, 12 bars.

LeftieBiker
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Re: 2013 S - 80 or 100%?

Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:33 am

Unless you get consecutive days with highs well below freezing and sub-zero lows, the battery warmer probably won't run. The pack temp (not the air temp) has to be in the single digits (F) for it to start. Mine runs maybe three times a year, and not at all last Winter.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

arnis
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Re: 2013 S - 80 or 100%?

Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:54 pm

IssacZachary wrote:Ok. Thanks!

But wouldn't the battery warm up during the charge and then be warmest after 80% clear up to 100%? I do have a level two EVSE and it's rated at 7kW, which is plenty for the 6.6kW onboard charger. Wouldn't that warm the battery before it got near 100%?

I mean my last job from my house is only a mile or two away, and it's also my longest job, about 6 hours. Plus the maximum speed limit between the job and my home is 35mph. It would seem it would get more heat from charging at home than from the drive home.

Before my last job I have several others here and there. Which means short drives here and there, in a town with a maximum speed limit of 35mph. I have reached the low battery warning a few times. But my schedule changes so much I never know how far I'll drive in a day. If I think I might run out I go charge for an hour during lunch. Or even take a coffee brake and charge up for 15 or 30 minutes. I'm glad I got a 6.6kW charger!

It just seems that most days I could have made the whole day off of 100% charge, or even a day or two where I have to head 30 miles out of town and then 30 miles back first thing in the morning, at which point I have to charge getting back and things get a little sketchy if I didn't charge up 100% the night before. It also seems that if it's a day where I charged to 80% and now it's looking like I need to charge during lunch that's the day my wife wants to go eat at a restaurant that's nowhere near the home or the town's public charging station.

It just would make things a bit easier if I could charge to 100% every night and not fear it's hurting the battery.


Definitely charge to 100% then ;)
If you have 6.6kWh charger and you do very short trips during the whole day it might be true that charging from low to full will raise temperature more than during the day. Doesn't really matter. If you let the battery sit it will cool down. So charge whenever you can. At those low temperatures battery hardly degrades. Literally, less than 2% per year.

I have DC stations everywhere so I can't run out of charge. If I wouldn't have them I would always charge to 100% in winter just to be more prepared.

Nissan did not drop 80% option in EU. Therefore it is definitely EPA thingy.
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

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RegGuheert
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Re: 2013 S - 80 or 100%?

Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:42 am

arnis wrote:Definitely charge to 100% then ;)
If you have 6.6kWh charger and you do very short trips during the whole day it might be true that charging from low to full will raise temperature more than during the day. Doesn't really matter. If you let the battery sit it will cool down. So charge whenever you can. At those low temperatures battery hardly degrades. Literally, less than 2% per year.

I have DC stations everywhere so I can't run out of charge. If I wouldn't have them I would always charge to 100% in winter just to be more prepared.
Agreed. In the temperatures IssacZachary is quoting, there is no reason to avoid 100% in the wintertime. In the heat of the summer, charging to 80% likely would give more range than you get with 100% in the wintertime, so you might as well do that.

I also recommend that you set your charge timer (and climate control timer) to finish right when you leave so that the battery (and passenger compartment) is as warm as possible when you depart for work.
arnis wrote:Nissan did not drop 80% option in EU. Therefore it is definitely EPA thingy.
Interesting. I didn't know that they kept it in Europe.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 3K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

arnis
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Re: 2013 S - 80 or 100%?

Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:26 am

I'm not sure about charging as late as possible.
Sitting while parked will let the battery cool down after driving.
If battery is at 2 bars charging above 80% is nightmare, it might take
3-4 hours no matter charging method.
If battery is warm charging slows down around 95% and last 5% take an hour.
If it is cold around 90%. Very cold and 3kW charge tapering happens before
85% is reached. Therefore with 6kWh charger even earlier.
It literally charges at 1kW rate for 3 hours and then last 5% might take another
hour or two.

I would charge ASAP (as soon as electricity prices drop at least).

True. 100% charge in very cold weather is still less range than 80% in summer.
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

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