30kwh battery heat question for owners and cognoscenti

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cdherman

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
182
Location
Kansas City, Missouri
I now have a 2016 SV with the 30kwh battery. I still have my 2012 SL with its 24kwh degraded (77%) battery.

The new Leaf battery battery temp meter seems to consistently show a bar more on the new Leaf than would have been showing on the old Leaf under similar driving and weather conditions. Worries me a little.

There a couple of explanations that occur to me:

-- Larger capacity battery pack in same size space interfering with heat dissipation
-- Faster charging (I have never Quicked) of the 6.6 versus 3.6 kw of the 2012
-- Nissan changed the temperature points of the temp bars somewhere along the way, to make drivers more cautious about battery heat.

I could not really find this issue being discussed, though I suspect it has.......

Ideas????
 
I have a 2016 SV.
I don't have anything to compare to but it seems pretty easy to warm the battery. Mine lives at 5 bars most of the time. 6 on a hot day. I got it to 10 one day ( 85 degF) on a long trip with 6 QCs on a 350 mile trip. The car didn't trip any warnings ar change performance in any way. A leaf Spy check put the temp @120 or so which is high for sure. I think there is a chart on this site somewhere that gives the temps vs bars. I checked it with mine and it seems to track but I also think the bars can vary when they trip the next one. Like an gas gauge on an ICE car can have a mind of it's own at times.
I also noticed that my battery health reported by Leaf Spy went up after that trip. The car never sat at high temp, high charge. I charged then drove off again so it was always working. It did cool down on the last leg of the trip while driving. I think 9 bars when I got home and it was back to 6 in the morning after being on L1 charge all night.
I guess my take is drive it, charge it, enjoy the quite ride. It is a designed as a relatively local (100 mile pretty much )range car. Trips can be done but not without planning. Occasional ones I think won't be bad for it.
Since the 30 kph battery is new we don't know if it is new tech or just more of the same tech. I read they were more heat tolerant. May be that means they can get hot and not degrade as badly. It also could mean that they can get hot rather resist heat.
I guess we will know in a few years.
 
My understanding is that you should NEVER do more than 1-2 QC charges per day.... 6 QC charges in one day sound like you will fry the new battery....
 
I think the difference is the 6.6 KW (2016) vs 3.8 KW (2012) charging. Using LeafSpy, I've noticed a measurable difference between charging and non-charging nights, even at 1.2 KW L1
 
powersurge said:
My understanding is that you should NEVER do more than 1-2 QC charges per day.... 6 QC charges in one day sound like you will fry the new battery....

Nah, I did 3 QCs when I bought my 2012 in NC on the drive home to TN. I would have done a 4th but the station didn't exist in that leg.

I don't think number of QCs per day matters. I think its all about battery temps. As long as your battery pack is below 80F per leafspy I'd have no hesitation charging it with Chademo no matter how many times I had charged it earlier that day.
 
dhanson865 said:
powersurge said:
My understanding is that you should NEVER do more than 1-2 QC charges per day.... 6 QC charges in one day sound like you will fry the new battery....

Nah, I did 3 QCs when I bought my 2012 in NC on the drive home to TN. I would have done a 4th but the station didn't exist in that leg.

I don't think number of QCs per day matters. I think its all about battery temps. As long as your battery pack is below 80F per leafspy I'd have no hesitation charging it with Chademo no matter how many times I had charged it earlier that day.
I agree. Unfortunately, for the 30kWh pack, those criteria only let you do one QC every five or six hours, provided your ambient temperature is no warmer than 60F. My 2016SL seems far LESS capable of journeys over about 150 miles than my 2012 was. Cooling the battery during QC is a problem that Nissan has failed to admit, let alone solve. And I'd accept "Connect liquid CO2 tank hose here" as a solution.

Good thing the BC-2-BC rally isn't run anymore; the 2016s would all be cooked right about at Los Angeles.
 
So the opinion is not to heat the battery at all. This makes total sense if keeping the battery like new as long as possible is the goal I guess. How about using the car? Is this wonderful car meant to only go the distance of one charge? Why did Nissan put a QC port on them? Why does Nissan invest in the QC stations? Seems like they want us to drive these cars further than a single charge distance. In my case I could have done less QC sessions but I was testing remaining charge at these stations so I would have an idea what would be left when I make the same trip in January. Heat was an issue this time but cold will be then.

When I ran the temp up as noted in my previous post the car gave no warning. There are red bars at the top of the gauge. Like in an ICE car the engine temp can go close to those and be fine. Above means trouble. Since Nissan is a long standing auto maker I would assume the gauge would follow some logic from an ICE car. Top of normal is pushing the limit but not crossing it. I will say that on that trip I only charged to 80%. Also I normal run the battery in its mid range. 30-80% there about. I can make my commute on 80% with easy so I do a 12 hour L1 session each night and that gets me what I need. I don't charge at all on days off unless I need the car.

I have used Li Battery drills and other power tools for years and they will get hot quite often. I haven't seem much difference in long term battery life effected by the type of use. I'm sure the tech is different to an extent but similar enough. Those won't let you charge if they are hot and will shut down if you push them too hard. Also the are quite weak in the cold until they warm up.

I'm sure repeated heating of the battery will quicken it's demise but I still think an occasional run like that won't hurt it. My Leaf Spy health is holding the increase it got from that trip a week later. Not sure if that means anything.

My sense from what I have read is that prolonged heat and high charge state is the real enemy. Mine never sat at high charge on that trip. I ended the trip around 20% in the evening and L1 charged overnight in cool temps.

I guess my point or opinion if you will is the batteries in these cars are sadly a wear item. As are the cars them selves. I can't keep a car in Vermont for much more than 5 or six years the distance and conditions I drive in ( Of course I can but they start needing things more by then.) . Salt every day of the winter takes it's toll on the body as do the roads. I have to say cars seem better about rust than they used to be.

I wonder if the mentality of preserving the battery is similar to that of the chase oil envy 2k miles in ICE cars( higher now with the new oils). Yes the engine will last forever but I know there are piles of rusted cars in junk yards with perfectly preserved engines. I guess it depends on the individual. To me this is my transport. I will use it as such within its obvious limits but I will creatively push those limits from time to time as needed. I think regional trips should be ok. Days of multiple QCs on a hot day no. Then I would rent a car to use another mode of travel.

I'm not advocating that we should intentionally abuse these batteries but if the need arrises to do 6 QCs on a hot day then do it.
I would love to hear from some folks with older leafs that have done that but live in cooler climates.
There is no doubt that living in a hot climate degrades the battery faster no matter how you charge and the precautions mention here I would think apply in those locations.

Thanks for reading, just trying to get to the reality of all this. I read so many varied opinions here I'm sure the truth is in there somewhere.

Cheers.
 
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