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jhm614
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Re: Gen 2 LEAF AND a new Fiat Chrysler BEV to be announced at CES on 1/5/2017?

Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:09 pm

SageBrush wrote:I tried to estimate how much money Nissan loses on each lease that is eventually auctioned for around $6000. Even considering CARB ZEV credits, the best I came up with was -- a lot. I figured they collect 10k from the lease, 6k from the auction and 5k from the CARB credit. That is no way forward for Nissan's EV adventure. I know I sound like a merchant of doom and gloom. Apologies to all who want to see the EV space expand but I am pessimistic with regards to Nissan unless they pull a rabbit out of the hat that starts with much improved battery cooling tech.

Don't forget they also collect the $7,500 tax credit - still doesn't sound like a money maker for them in today's market... all the more reason for them to get Leaf 2.0 out!
2011 Brilliant Silver SL - 101,000 gasoline free miles so far.
4BL: 06/29/13 @ 27 months, 43,520 miles, 42.56 Ahr. New 12 bar battery: 09/09/13
4BLx2:12/31/16 @ 69 months, 99,475 miles, 42.99 Ahr.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Gen 2 LEAF AND a new Fiat Chrysler BEV to be announced at CES on 1/5/2017?

Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:08 am

Nissan applies the tax credit to the lease downpayment. So unless they inflated the MSRP by thousands of dollars, they don't do well there, either.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

edatoakrun
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Re: Gen 2 LEAF AND a new Fiat Chrysler BEV to be announced at CES on 1/5/2017?

Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:02 am

Back on-topic, More hints (from a source with significant Japanese connections) about Nissan's CES reveal, as reported below.

I don't expect to be disappointed, if a substantially new BEV or BEVx with an improvement in efficiency over the LEAF gen one, close to the efficiency of the world-leading Ioniq BEV is announced, and with timely ~2018 MY deliveries.

As also has been hinted at previously, Whenever the Gen 2 LEAF is announced, I believe it probably will have a 30 kWh total base pack, with a somewhat higher kWh, (I'd guess between 40 and 50 kWh total) optional.

Which one I'd choose would depend on the variable price and efficiency of each option.

Ghosn Hints At 'Substantial' CES Reveal, But Nissan Leaf's New Battery Could Disappoint At First

Nissan’s long-awaited second generation of its battery-electric Leaf could make a public appearance as early as in a few weeks. However, the car’s range could initially be a little less than the expected 400 kilometers (250 miles) per the optimistic Japanese standard.

On Friday, Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn dropped heavy hints of a major announcement at the upcoming Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas.

“It will be a substantial presentation. We will show the public how much our cars are going to change with the technology we are going to be implementing,” Ghosn continued....

Nissan, the world’s first volume maker of battery-electric vehicles and holder of half their global market share together with alliance partner Renault, will be at the show for the first time. Not only that, Carlos Ghosn will open the show with a keynote speech. The boss doesn't want to come to Vegas empty-handed...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmi ... 67089b2793
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Joe6pack
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Re: Gen 2 LEAF AND a new Fiat Chrysler BEV to be announced at CES on 1/5/2017?

Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:49 am

Ghosn is on record as saying that when they show a new vehicle, they like to put it on sale immediately - i.e. the new Zoe. Here's hoping.
2012 Leaf SL leased October 4th, 2012
Braselton, GA

rmay635703
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Re: Gen 2 LEAF AND a new Fiat Chrysler BEV to be announced at CES on 1/5/2017?

Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:55 am

Ghosns ethanol / natural gas fuel cell car was giving Brazilian officials test drives a few days ago, it is possible we see more on that tech

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evnow
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Re: Gen 2 LEAF AND a new Fiat Chrysler BEV to be announced at CES on 1/5/2017?

Fri Dec 16, 2016 5:07 pm

Don't be surprised if this is the updated version of what we saw at the Tokyo auto show. A concept car with hints of Leaf 2 and autonomous drive.

I think Nissan took a big chance with in-house battery that obviously didn't work out. Degradations and cost not falling as much as the competition. Very difficult to move out of this situation quickly for Nissan.

So, I won't expect a 200+ Leaf anytime soon - since it didn't come with '17 model, as some of us had hoped. To me this means, they have decided to move to LG batteries that will take some years to come to market with.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to ?

edatoakrun
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Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Gen 2 LEAF AND a new Fiat Chrysler BEV to be announced at CES on 1/5/2017?

Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:30 am

edatoakrun wrote:Back on-topic, More hints (from a source with significant Japanese connections) about Nissan's CES reveal, as reported below.

I don't expect to be disappointed, if a substantially new BEV or BEVx with an improvement in efficiency over the LEAF gen one, close to the efficiency of the world-leading Ioniq BEV is announced, and with timely ~2018 MY deliveries.

As also has been hinted at previously, Whenever the Gen 2 LEAF is announced, I believe it probably will have a 30 kWh total base pack, with a somewhat higher kWh, (I'd guess between 40 and 50 kWh total) optional.

Which one I'd choose would depend on the variable price and efficiency of each option...

Using stats from Nissan xStorage the capacity of the next gen AESC battery is estimated by Pedro at ~37.5 kWh (And, IMO, that's available, capacity, and likely ~41.5 kWh total.)

I think Pedro may be in error when he assumes the figures he reports ("storage capacity") are total capacity.

I think current 24 kWh LEAF packs may have ~23.4 kWh (on average) available, not ~23.4 kWh total as Pedro reports.

2013 LEAF with ~500 miles on them averaged ~24.2 kWh total capacity in AVTA tests, a significant increase over the lower capacity packs in 2011 and 2012 LEAFs:

https://avt.inl.gov/vehicle-button/2013-nissan-leaf

I would not be surprised if continued incremental improvements over the last four years mean the most recent 24 kWh LEAF packs manufactured would have shown ~26 kWh total, and ~23.4 kWh available, on average, if they were tested shortly after manufacture.

Eaton Nissan xStorage reveals future battery capacity
BY PEDRO LIMA · DECEMBER 23, 2016

We can see a 60 % battery capacity improvement for 2017...

While it’s still unknown if the new battery cells will have their weight and volume unchanged, it’s very probable, this means an energy density increase to 507 Wh/L and 251 Wh/kg, not bad for a pouch cell.

Here you have it, you can expect 37,44 kWh capacity for the new battery, this is a bit disappointing since the first information I got months ago was that the facelifted Nissan Leaf would get at least 41-42 kWh of usable battery capacity.

Yet, the Hyundai IONIQ Electric proved us that battery capacity isn’t everything. What cool features do you think Nissan has reserved for the facelifted Leaf unveil?

http://pushevs.com/2016/12/23/eaton-nis ... -capacity/
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Gen 2 LEAF AND a new Fiat Chrysler BEV to be announced at CES on 1/5/2017?

Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:11 am

Not a LEAF, different platform altogether
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 6190 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 102ish% kwh 28.1
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kmp647
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Re: Gen 2 LEAF AND a new Fiat Chrysler BEV to be announced at CES on 1/5/2017?

Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:57 am

Some type of an SUV or compact SUV would be a winner in the USA.
No one seems to want sedans anymore.
2012 SL Leaf
order 07/28/2011
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cwerdna
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Re: Gen 2 LEAF AND a new Fiat Chrysler BEV to be announced at CES on 1/5/2017?

Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:16 am

kmp647 wrote:Some type of an SUV or compact SUV would be a winner in the USA.
No one seems to want sedans anymore.

Indeed. For whatever reason, the US auto market has shifted in the direction.

For context, for those who haven't seen figures, see http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2 ... sales.html. And, also look how far down Leaf is compared to top selling vehicles in the US: http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2016/12/no ... model.html.

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