DaveinOlyWA
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Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
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Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:33 am

abasile wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:LEAF Spy added temp reading for inverter and or motor I think. are you seeing excessively high temps on your logs?

My OBD adapter doesn't appear to be working, so I haven't checked. LEAF Spy is great, but we haven't found it necessary for routine driving.

However, I agree that it makes no sense to blame the motor temperature for bad regen. Particularly if I've only been driving for ten minutes and the ambient air temperature is about 45 F.

I can understand regen limitations when the battery is cold, but as long as it's possible to charge the car on L2, there should be at least some regen. Plus it should be possible to offset the heater consumption.


Might want to log a drive down the hill. At first my reaction was that the tech's comments made no sense but after thinking about it.... well, maybe.

LEAF Spy added motor temps to its logs and on DC fast charging, the motor temp doesn't change at all which makes sense since its bypassing inverter/motor directly to battery.

While driving, temps get pretty hot pretty fast. So the big question becomes

1) Has anyone seen reduced power going up large hills? The power out greatly exceeds power in so maintaining a power output over 30 KW would be easy to do even on very moderate uphill climbs.

2) How hot is your motor getting per LEAF Spy on your regen trips down the hill? Is there a cutoff that occurs initiated by a certain temperature? I dk off the top of my head, but iirc correctly the high end I generally see is around 125º maybe low 130's? and never had a reduced power issue that I remember.

I don't generally do anything near what you do but I have a decent slope on Highway 18 westbound. Its very steep in places but less than 10 miles but I have powered up that hill with all power circles lit up several times. (One of the joys of EV driving. Hill climbing! :) ) during all kinds of weather but its still as much as 15 mins (sometimes MUCH longer) of sustained high power driving.

Finally; on that "cold issue?" How cold is it cause I hear about it all the time but I have never seen it affect the power output of my car and my LEAF did see low teens a few times.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
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abasile
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Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:47 pm

Never once have I seen our LEAF limit its available motor power. (EDIT: I take it back - there may have been a couple times where it was missing a circle or two on the available power display due to extreme cold.) Normally, we've driven slowly when climbing the mountain in the LEAF, at a motor power level not much higher than 20 kW. At times in the past, however, I drove the LEAF up our mountain at full speed the whole way (16 miles, 4800 or 4900 feet up), close to 55 mph. This required the motor to continuously draw at least 40 kW on the steeper sections, and 25-35 kW elsewhere. At that time, Nissan still gave our car all "five stars" in the battery check reports.

This morning I was on the phone for a while with a Nissan consumer affairs representative who was assigned to me when I first called the EV support hotline. After a while, he did seem to "get" my concerns about regen. He truly seemed surprised that the LEAF will climb the mountain just fine (provided it's charged enough), but that coming down is problematic.

According to the Nissan rep., the best next step would be for me to convince the dealer service manager (of this dealer or another dealer) to open a "tech line" case with Nissan. Failing that, he advised that I could try going through a different dealer. The ultimate goal in this would be to get Nissan to send an engineer to ride in the car with me and allow me to demonstrate the problem. Regrettably, the Nissan rep. did admit that Nissan would be highly unlikely to consider making any regen-related software changes unless they're getting lots of complaints. He also told me that they won't repair or replace the battery pack under the 8yr/100k mile warranty unless there's a bad cell.

Measuring the motor temperature wouldn't hurt if this can be used to refute the local dealer's LEAF technician's initial claim that regen is being limited to keep the motor from overheating, and thus get the dealer to agree that regen is being excessively limited. The point of this would be to get the dealer to open a "tech line" case. That said, if I can secure the dealer's cooperation without having to spend hours taking the LEAF down the mountain again, I'll do that.

While the signals from Nissan and from the dealer are far from encouraging, I plan to pursue this process as far as it leads.
2011 LEAF at 71K miles, pre-owned 2012 Tesla S 85 at 98K miles
LEAF battery: 9/12 bars and < 49 Ah (-28% vs. new)
Tesla battery: 250+ miles of range (-5% vs. new)

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Nubo
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Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:06 pm

abasile wrote:The technician told me that he believes Nissan never intended the LEAF to be used for going up and down mountains...


I'm always amazed how people with such defective logic manage to become "technicians".
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

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abasile
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Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:29 pm

That reminds me, didn't Nissan run the LEAF in the Pike's Peak Hill Climb?
2011 LEAF at 71K miles, pre-owned 2012 Tesla S 85 at 98K miles
LEAF battery: 9/12 bars and < 49 Ah (-28% vs. new)
Tesla battery: 250+ miles of range (-5% vs. new)

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abasile
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Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:37 pm

I do have to give the dealer technician credit, though. He is trying to help. He just agreed to open a case with Nissan's tech line. And I reminded the dealer about Nissan getting publicity by taking the LEAF up Pike's Peak. :D
2011 LEAF at 71K miles, pre-owned 2012 Tesla S 85 at 98K miles
LEAF battery: 9/12 bars and < 49 Ah (-28% vs. new)
Tesla battery: 250+ miles of range (-5% vs. new)

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RegGuheert
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Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:17 pm

Abasile, I just watched this old video of an interview with Nissan's then-VP Mark Perry and I thought perhaps it could be useful to you. In that video, what he states is that Nissan warrants a drop in power which would make the vehicle unsafe. I would have to say that the drop in power of regen in your battery is certainly making the car unsafe. I don't know if it will help you, but it might be worth a shot.

Here it is:

RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
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NissanClient73
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Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:11 am

Dear owners of Nissan 2011-2012. I am happy for those who are rightfully recieved a prorated post warranty support for the battery degradation issue. The car was sold to us without disclosing the information regarding the rapid battery degradation. However, many of us were declined this service and now left with the car that can only go 40 miles fully charged.

In my case, we were only 3 month out on warranty time when we lost the 4th bar. Nissan has opened a case number for us to replace the battery, and closed it when we tried to replace the battery.

I tried to reach out to executive Nissan authorities and contacted Jaime Copenhaver directly. Unfortunately, they were unwilling to help and declined any coverage for the battery.

If you were unfairly treated by Nissan, please contact me at yurcha45@gmail.com. It is time for the Nissan 2011-2012 owners to open a class action lawsuit

Sincerely, Inessa

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davewill
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Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:08 pm

NissanClient73 wrote:Dear owners of Nissan 2011-2012.
...

If you were unfairly treated by Nissan, please contact me at yurcha45@gmail.com. It is time for the Nissan 2011-2012 owners to open a class action lawsuit

Sincerely, Inessa


Dude, I'm sorry to tell you that Nissan already settled a class action suit on this. That's where the warranty you missed came from. You won't be able to sue them again.
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OrientExpress
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Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:25 pm

NissanClient73 wrote:Dear owners of Nissan 2011-2012.

Honestly, you didn't do your homework, and that's the basis for a class action?

A warranty is a warranty and it has specific time limits.
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NissanClient73
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Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:29 pm

davewill wrote:
NissanClient73 wrote:Dear owners of Nissan 2011-2012.
...

If you were unfairly treated by Nissan, please contact me at yurcha45@gmail.com. It is time for the Nissan 2011-2012 owners to open a class action lawsuit

Sincerely, Inessa


Dude, I'm sorry to tell you that Nissan already settled a class action suit on this. That's where the warranty you missed came from. You won't be able to sue them again.


Dudess, not dude. This is very disappointing.
Nissan keeps lying about the battery performance.
The rate of capacity loss is about double what Nissan advertised in the above provided video. This is not OK.

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