SageBrush
Posts: 1407
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:00 pm

sandeen wrote:
peter wrote:Just got off of talking to Nissan support after opening an out of warranty battery replacement assistance case for my 2011 Leaf two weeks ago.

He says the official Nissan word is that all out of warranty battery assistance has been ended since last week. Fini.


Oh, man. :( My 2012 is on the edge, but I was counting on / hoping for some assistance if I didn't make it in time. What a bummer. You were talking to the NO GAS EV folks I assume?


Back when this program first started, I wondered why Nissan set it up as a case by case thing rather than just improve the warranty. Now we know: no obligation on their part to anybody.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

Valdemar
Posts: 2412
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:08 pm

Can this be they had a surplus 24kWh packs that ran out and they will be putting 30kWh packs now?
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
59.7AHr, SOH 93%, 118k miles
9kW Solar

sandeen
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 1:45 pm
Leaf Number: 026685
Location: Minnesota

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:19 pm

SageBrush wrote:Now we know: no obligation on their part to anybody.

Well, that's how goodwill (non)-warranty assistance always works...
2012 SL from TX, (mfg 8/12), used, dropped to 8 bars at 43.50 Ahr, 40,601 miles. my daily stats =/= my collected data on 4-bar losers

SageBrush
Posts: 1407
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:50 pm

sandeen wrote:
SageBrush wrote:Now we know: no obligation on their part to anybody.

Well, that's how goodwill (non)-warranty assistance always works...

Fair point. I suppose it only came up because there was a hope that Nissan had reconsidered their overall miserable handling of early adopters and owners of 2011/2012 LEAFs, and @DaveInOly conjectured that this was Nissan's way of discounting the battery replacement.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

sandeen
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 1:45 pm
Leaf Number: 026685
Location: Minnesota

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:59 pm

It seems odd to cut it off cold like this. For one, it leaves a lot of 2012 owners out in the cold - many of those cars are still approaching their warranty cutoff dates. (Mine is in Feb of next year.)
If they had a budget for goodwill, and had done the assistance at closer to 50%, there would have been a lot more people helped out by the program, rather than a handful of 100%-80% concessions, with the latecomers getting zilch.
It'll be interesting to see if there are more reports about this from others who try. For me you'll probably need to wait until spring. ;)
2012 SL from TX, (mfg 8/12), used, dropped to 8 bars at 43.50 Ahr, 40,601 miles. my daily stats =/= my collected data on 4-bar losers

Evoforce
Posts: 645
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:06 pm

Joe6pack wrote:
I know of at least one manufacturer that does... Tesla! But I'm sure you didn't want to hear that. :lol:


Nope, not these days. Remember, we are talking outside of warranty. Good luck getting Tesla to do anything after the warranty has expired.


I am speaking from experience with both Nissan and Tesla. And... I own some of each. I want both companies to do great. I personally have a vested interest in both. You should take into account that some of us do have a relationship with both companies. As bad as you don't want to believe it, Tesla has replaced things for free on one of my out of warranty vehicles and I suspect will do more. So far, they have treated me very well.

I have also had 2 batteries replaced in my Leafs under warranty and was treated well. My son also owns a Leaf and may/may not qualify for battery warranty. I was happy to hear that Nissan (was) helping mitigate out of warranty customers with degradation problems.

Keep in mind, I am not stuck with either one of these companies. If another company makes a better mouse trap, I will be there to test it if I truly believe they are better.
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

User avatar
drees
Moderator
Posts: 6202
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:51 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:32 pm

[MOD NOTE] A number of personal insults and related posts moved to Snippiness. Joe6pack / SageBrush - cut it out.
'11 LEAF SL Powered By 3.24 kW Enphase Solar PV

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 7179
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:48 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Joe6pack wrote:Talk about clueless. There are plenty of stories about Tesla refusing work outside of warranty. You're trying to create a catch 22. Tesla has no degradation warranty nor do they have a universally recognized way to measure degradation.

I have no idea what a "universally recognized" way is. If you mean goofy LEAF bars that Nissan changes their meaning on a whim, then no.

kWh meter (multiplied by a constant) shown every time a Tesla is charged, YES.

SageBrush: I'm not sure your claim here is correct. Tesla seems to be the one that is screwing with their "rated range" meter on a whim.

In another forum I'm on, a Model S owner and a bit of a fanboy stated over a year ago:
"Yeah. They're constantly screwing around with the Algorithms they use to estimate range, so your Battery may not have degraded as much as you think, but it's showing less range because of the software update. So in other words... who knows? "

A quick few searches on "TMC": has turned up threads like these:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ted.60499/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ost-546603
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ost-547018

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

SageBrush
Posts: 1407
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:04 am

cwerdna wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
Joe6pack wrote:Talk about clueless. There are plenty of stories about Tesla refusing work outside of warranty. You're trying to create a catch 22. Tesla has no degradation warranty nor do they have a universally recognized way to measure degradation.

I have no idea what a "universally recognized" way is. If you mean goofy LEAF bars that Nissan changes their meaning on a whim, then no.

kWh meter (multiplied by a constant) shown every time a Tesla is charged, YES.

SageBrush: I'm not sure your claim here is correct. Tesla seems to be the one that is screwing with their "rated range" meter on a whim.

In another forum I'm on, a Model S owner and a bit of a fanboy stated over a year ago:
"Yeah. They're constantly screwing around with the Algorithms they use to estimate range, so your Battery may not have degraded as much as you think, but it's showing less range because of the software update. So in other words... who knows? "

A quick few searches on "TMC": has turned up threads like these:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ted.60499/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ost-546603
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ost-547018


I remember the thread, pretty confusing but I think it came down to this:
"Apparently just about any update can/might/will on some cars "forget" the data/measurements for the battery pack installed in the car. When that happens, the UI shows the "default for the pack when new" until it collects current data to feed to the algorithm to get an actual estimate. I've had this happen like 4 times on my Nov2012 Sig P85, and I think once on my Dec2014 P85D."

Ongoing battery capacity estimates is a tricky business in an EV, with effects from heat, hysteresis, imperfect coulomb counting (and who knows what else) in play. We see the same in the LEAF when Ahr estimates in LeafSpy jump around after a charge or three to 100% SoC or use of a QC. The rated miles (RM) in a Tesla is simply battery capacity * a_constant, but the battery capacity calculation can have short lived errors. No conspiracy here or deception or gaming, just some difficult engineering and occasionally resets like that mentioned above. It is certainly night and day different from Nissan changing the Ahr thresholds for capacity bar loss.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

Roadburner440
Posts: 278
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:42 pm
Location: Hampton, VA

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:18 am

sandeen wrote:If they had a budget for goodwill, and had done the assistance at closer to 50%, there would have been a lot more people helped out by the program, rather than a handful of 100%-80% concessions, with the latecomers getting zilch.


I can definitely agree with this. While I am grateful for the assistance I have received I was prepared to pay some of the costs out of pocket since the car did go over the warranty period. Knowing how much it sucks to have reduced range, and have to monitor defroster usage in the middle of winter I would have liked to see more people get assistance. To be quite honest I wasn't expecting anything going in to it, so it was a big shock for me when they did come back and say they were going to replace the battery. I do wonder what is going to happen now with Nissan selling AESC off. I do like the car quite a lot, and would hope to be able to get a replacement battery in the future if I need it. Otherwise going to have to start looking at the only other alternative I am considering (Bolt) when the time comes.
Steve
2012 Cayenne Red Leaf SL #16790
2016 Chevrolet Volt LT Kinetic Blue
Turned in: 2012 Chevy Volt #2395

Return to “News & Main LEAF Discussion”