NissanClient73
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:47 am
Delivery Date: 10 Apr 2018
Leaf Number: 016549

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:14 am

Advertisement from Nissan:

The average American drives less than 37 miles per day. With a maximum range of up to 107 miles, the Nissan LEAF® SV & SL can take you nearly three times that distance on a single charge.


It is on Nissan’s website

Valdemar
Posts: 2459
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:19 am

NissanClient73 wrote:Advertisement from Nissan:

The average American drives less than 37 miles per day. With a maximum range of up to 107 miles, the Nissan LEAF® SV & SL can take you nearly three times that distance on a single charge.


It is on Nissan’s website


As it was pointed out you "can do" 107 miles in a 2011 Nissan Leaf on a single charge, but it is not the official range figure. Marketing talk. Caveat emptor.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
54.94AHr, SOH 86%, 130k miles
9kW Solar

SageBrush
Posts: 2390
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:27 am

Yep. "up to" means under specific conditions that result can be achieved.
It most certainly does not mean that result will be seen in everybody's daily driving.

Humans can run 100 meters in as few as 9.58 seconds.
For me it is probably closer to 30 seconds, but YMMV
Last edited by SageBrush on Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles

NissanClient73
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:47 am
Delivery Date: 10 Apr 2018
Leaf Number: 016549

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:32 am

Valdemar wrote:As it was pointed out you "can do" 107 miles in a 2011 Nissan Leaf on a single charge, but it is not the official range figure. Marketing talk. Caveat emptor.


Misleading advertising is prohibited by law. I am surprised there was no class action for that yet.

Some people do not realize, that consumers are not specialists. Consumers should not be expected to perform their own research prior to purchasing the product.

All information provided by the seller should be clearly and fully disclosed.

Valdemar
Posts: 2459
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:43 am

NissanClient73 wrote:
Valdemar wrote:As it was pointed out you "can do" 107 miles in a 2011 Nissan Leaf on a single charge, but it is not the official range figure. Marketing talk. Caveat emptor.


Misleading advertising is prohibited by law. I am surprised there was no class action for that yet.

Some people do not realize, that consumers are not specialists. Consumers should not be expected to perform their own research prior to purchasing the product.

All information provided by the seller should be clearly and fully disclosed.


How much more disclosure do you really need other than the official EPA range ratings? Also, most 2011/12 purchasers had to sign a disclosure form that clearly explained what range should be expected from the car under real world driving conditions in different scenarios. The only illusion I had when I bought the car was about the battery longevity, not the range. The class action about the abysmal longevity has already happened, if you did not opt out at the time you're now a part of the class and cannot sue Nissan separately. You can try the BBB route to get a new battery out of Nissan as many of us successfully done, but given the age of your vehicle it will likely be an uphill battle.
Last edited by Valdemar on Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
54.94AHr, SOH 86%, 130k miles
9kW Solar

SageBrush
Posts: 2390
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:08 am

NissanClient73 wrote:
Valdemar wrote:As it was pointed out you "can do" 107 miles in a 2011 Nissan Leaf on a single charge, but it is not the official range figure. Marketing talk. Caveat emptor.


Misleading advertising is prohibited by law.

It sure is, but the bar in determining that something is misleading is actually pretty high.
E.g., consumer inability to think logically is insufficient.

You can go into a courtroom and say "After reading UP TO 107 miles on a charge, I *felt like* they meant I would get over 100 mile per charge in my daily driving," but you are going to have a short time in front of the judge before s/he throws out the case.

ALL advertising is by its nature partial information that is supplied with a hefty dose of spin. It is rare that any of it reaches the level of misleading. Consider that headache pill you are thinking of taking about now. Fair chance it was advertised on TV that NO OTHER HEADACHE REMEDY IS SUPERIOR !!!!!!!

You may well think that you have the best and leading brand, but you are wrong. The advert actually only claimed non-inferiority. You may now wish you had spent 1/4rth for the cheap stuff, but no court is going to side with you and your claim of misleading advertising is going to fail.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles

cwerdna
Posts: 7823
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:57 am

NissanClient73 wrote:Advertisement from Nissan:

The average American drives less than 37 miles per day. With a maximum range of up to 107 miles, the Nissan LEAF® SV & SL can take you nearly three times that distance on a single charge.


It is on Nissan’s website

URL?

That is very likely referring to the 2016 30 kWh Leaf SV and SL (+ the 2016 Leaf "S 30" (https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... gher-price) and all 2017 Leafs) with a 107 mile EPA range, not your 24 kWh Leaf with 73 mile range rating.

https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?act ... 9&id=38428

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

NissanClient73
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:47 am
Delivery Date: 10 Apr 2018
Leaf Number: 016549

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:48 pm

Valdemar wrote:
NissanClient73 wrote:
Valdemar wrote:How much more disclosure do you really need other than the official EPA range ratings? Also, most 2011/12 purchasers had to sign a disclosure form that clearly explained what range should be expected from the car under real world driving conditions in different scenarios. The only illusion I had when I bought the car was about the battery longevity, not the range. The class action about the abysmal longevity has already happened, if you did not opt out at the time you're now a part of the class and cannot sue Nissan separately. You can try the BBB route to get a new battery out of Nissan as many of us successfully done, but given the age of your vehicle it will likely be an uphill battle.


We did not sign any disclosures. No one has provided the official EPA range ratings to us. Back in 2011 Nissan advertised 100 miles range on fully charged battery. I clearly remember that, and I am sure I am not alone. I remember that we asked the dealer about the realistic range, and he answered that it depends on our “driving style”. He said if you drive on eco mode, with air conditioner off, the car will go 100 miles. It never did. We have discussed that with other Nissan owners, and they all agreed that Nissan faulsy advertised the car.

SageBrush
Posts: 2390
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:11 pm

NissanClient73 wrote:No one has provided the official EPA range ratings to us.

For Pete's sake !

The sticker on the window when you bought the car. The sticker that by law only the car buyer may remove*. Are you now going to complain that nobody forced you to read it or explained it to your satisfaction and ability or forced you to take a competency test on the sticker information before agreeing to sell you the car ?

*I have all of mine. <<shrug>>

Image
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles

cwerdna
Posts: 7823
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:43 pm

NissanClient73 wrote:No one has provided the official EPA range ratings to us. Back in 2011 Nissan advertised 100 miles range on fully charged battery. I clearly remember that, and I am sure I am not alone. I remember that we asked the dealer about the realistic range, and he answered that it depends on our “driving style”. He said if you drive on eco mode, with air conditioner off, the car will go 100 miles.

Here are some URLs showing the 73 mile range figure on the 2011 Leaf window sticker.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/2011- ... s-released
http://forum.roadfly.com/threads/131738 ... ow-Sticker
http://blog.morries.com/2011/03/nissan- ... review-19/
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/10 ... mile-range

Over 115 people at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=7022 have achieved 100+ miles on a charge on a 24 kWh Leaf, albeit by driving slowly.

As I said before, telling ICEV drivers that they should expect 100 miles on such a car is a TERRIBLE idea (and unfortunately, not uncommon for years :() but it’s certainly not impossible.

There’s no shortage of salesmen saying things just to make a sale out of either ignorance or malice.

(There was also some interesting info at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=2433.)

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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