Joe6pack
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:57 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 025854

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:02 am

I had my pack replaced back in May under warranty. I was told that the pack had to come from Japan. It took about three weeks. If someone can tell me how to figure out when it was made, I will look.
2012 Leaf SL leased October 4th, 2012
Braselton, GA

User avatar
OrientExpress
Forum Supporter
Posts: 1049
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:31 am

SageBrush wrote:If correct it casts doubt on my presumption that battery production stops when the last model using that size pack is discontinued.


The last builds of the 24kWh battery will happen when sub assembly parts are no longer available. I would suspect that the final builds of this part will happen in the next 12 months.
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
46,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

SageBrush
Posts: 1416
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:11 am

OrientExpress wrote:
SageBrush wrote:If correct it casts doubt on my presumption that battery production stops when the last model using that size pack is discontinued.


The last builds of the 24kWh battery will happen when sub assembly parts are no longer available. I would suspect that the final builds of this part will happen in the next 12 months.

That makes sense, although it kind of suggests over-stocking of sub-assembly parts in this case. Or perhaps Nissan is actually planning ahead for lots of in-warranty replacements.

However, it still means that the lion's share of in-warranty pack replacements that occur towards the end of the warranty period are going to be with packs that have sat in storage for 5+ years. Out of warranty replacements will be with even older packs. Who wants to pay thousands for that pack when it presumably carries no degradation warranty ? This is why I think the people who are planning on 5-8 years with the original pack and then 5-8 years with another replacement pack are not being realistic.

This entire notion really only has legs if Nissan was willing to offer retrofit replacement packs meant for future models. So far, every reason to think that will not come to pass.
Last edited by SageBrush on Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 5583
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:40 am

SageBrush wrote:Or perhaps Nissan is actually planning ahead for lots of in-warranty replacements.
I think there is little chance that is what is going on. I suspect the 30 kWh battery is actually *cheaper* to manufacture than the 24 kWh battery. I believe OrientExpress has previously indicated that Nissan was on the hook to purchase a certain amount of cathode material for the 24 kWh battery. It's possible that they still have not fulfilled that requirement and that they cannot afford to NOT take the material because it would mean paying for nothing.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

SageBrush
Posts: 1416
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:44 am

RegGuheert wrote:
SageBrush wrote:Or perhaps Nissan is actually planning ahead for lots of in-warranty replacements.
I think there is little chance that is what is going on. I suspect the 30 kWh battery is actually *cheaper* to manufacture than the 24 kWh battery. I believe OrientExpress has previously indicated that Nissan was on the hook to purchase a certain amount of cathode material for the 24 kWh battery. It's possible that they still have not fulfilled that requirement and that they cannot afford to NOT take the material because it would mean paying for nothing.

Is the cathode material different than that used in the 30/40 kWh packs ?
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 5583
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:52 am

SageBrush wrote:Is the cathode material different than that used in the 30/40 kWh packs ?
Yes. At least it *was*. The original 24kWh pack used LMO (IIRC) material for the cathode and the 30kWh and 40kWh packs are made using NMC.

It's possible that they have re-engineered the 24-kWh packs to use NMC, but I seriously doubt it.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

Valdemar
Posts: 2412
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:10 am

24kWh pack end of production is inevitable. What more interesting is if they will allow access to the full capacity once they start using "larger" batteries for replacements. I suspect not.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
59.7AHr, SOH 93%, 118k miles
9kW Solar

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 5583
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:38 am

Valdemar wrote:24kWh pack end of production is inevitable. What more interesting is if they will allow access to the full capacity once they start using "larger" batteries for replacements. I suspect not.
Why wouldn't they? They could charge for it...
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

Valdemar
Posts: 2412
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:42 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
Valdemar wrote:24kWh pack end of production is inevitable. What more interesting is if they will allow access to the full capacity once they start using "larger" batteries for replacements. I suspect not.
Why wouldn't they? They could charge for it...


There may not be a business case for this considering the costs involved.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
59.7AHr, SOH 93%, 118k miles
9kW Solar

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 5583
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:34 pm

Valdemar wrote:There may not be a business case for this considering the costs involved.
It seems the engineering is already done. Perhaps I am missing something, but I would think the cars asks the BMS to provide the information that it needs to do its job. Hopefully the car doesn't assume anything about the battery size.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

Return to “News & Main LEAF Discussion”