SageBrush
Posts: 1726
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Location: Colorado

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:07 pm

abasile wrote:
SageBrush wrote:I'm curious, how do you document brakes overheating ?

There's probably a relatively easy way to measure the temperature of the rotors,

That is a good idea. You are going to need something more than common sense to prevail with Nissan.

IR thermometers are cheap. I have one that works great and cost $40 IIRC. It is shaped like a gun with a laser sight. I aim it where I want to measure the temperature and 'click.'

Alternatively, impress on the the LEAF technician the need to drive halfway up your mountain and then down before evaluating brake function and temperature.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12574
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:14 pm

SageBrush wrote:
abasile wrote:I have a case number with Nissan's "EV hotline" and an appointment with the dealer down the hill. I intend to document my drive down the mountain, in terms of the braking behavior and my exact stops to let the brakes cool, and present this to the dealer.

I'm curious, how do you document brakes overheating ?


videotape the tech screaming when he touches the rotors to see how hot they are when you get to the bottom of the hill :lol:
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 129 miles, 491 GIDs, 38.1 Ahr available, 100% on everything else :)
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SageBrush
Posts: 1726
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
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Location: Colorado

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:10 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
abasile wrote:I have a case number with Nissan's "EV hotline" and an appointment with the dealer down the hill. I intend to document my drive down the mountain, in terms of the braking behavior and my exact stops to let the brakes cool, and present this to the dealer.

I'm curious, how do you document brakes overheating ?


videotape the tech

Are you channeling your inner Trump ?

I wonder if rotors have a temperature range specification.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

User avatar
abasile
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Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:25 am

SageBrush wrote:Alternatively, impress on the the LEAF technician the need to drive halfway up your mountain and then down before evaluating brake function and temperature.

I did advise when dropping off the car that the service department could reproduce the problem in exactly that manner.

That said, because the LEAF is parked down in the valley where the ambient air temperature is usually in the range of 10 - 30 degrees Fahrenheit warmer than at my elevated home, the battery won't be as cold and the regen won't be as bad. They'll also have to charge the LEAF first, as I dropped it off with five bars of charge, and that'll also raise the battery temperature. Still, the regen is so bad overall that I expect they'll see the issue regardless.

Don't worry - since I decided to start this process, I'm not going to let them off too easily.
2011 LEAF at 71K miles, pre-owned 2012 Tesla S 85 at 98K miles
LEAF battery: 9/12 bars and < 49 Ah (-28% vs. new)
Tesla battery: 250+ miles of range (-5% vs. new)

Valdemar
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Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
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Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:30 pm

abasile wrote:
SageBrush wrote:I'm curious, how do you document brakes overheating ?

There's probably a relatively easy way to measure the temperature of the rotors, though I wasn't shooting for that level of rigor.

It's common sense to most people near big mountains that you need engine braking (or regen in the case of a BEV) to safely descend long grades. Imagine if engine braking were disabled on a popular ICE vehicle like the Versa. It would not go over well.


There is very limited engine braking in D on automatic transmission, I doubt most people that drive down the mountain care to shift to low gear, they are just riding the brakes.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
59.7AHr, SOH 93%, 118k miles
9kW Solar

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12574
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
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Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:03 pm

Valdemar wrote:
abasile wrote:
SageBrush wrote:I'm curious, how do you document brakes overheating ?

There's probably a relatively easy way to measure the temperature of the rotors, though I wasn't shooting for that level of rigor.

It's common sense to most people near big mountains that you need engine braking (or regen in the case of a BEV) to safely descend long grades. Imagine if engine braking were disabled on a popular ICE vehicle like the Versa. It would not go over well.


There is very limited engine braking in D on automatic transmission, I doubt most people that drive down the mountain care to shift to low gear, they are just riding the brakes.


downshifting is a lot more popular than you think
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 129 miles, 491 GIDs, 38.1 Ahr available, 100% on everything else :)
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Valdemar
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Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
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Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:49 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:downshifting is a lot more popular than you think


Tell it to my wife and the bulk of female population out there, and probably 75% of male population too.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
59.7AHr, SOH 93%, 118k miles
9kW Solar

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:48 pm

Valdemar wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:downshifting is a lot more popular than you think


Tell it to my wife and the bulk of female population out there, and probably 75% of male population too.

Yeah, I was amazed that a friend of mine who owns a 4Runner needed to be told to take the car out of OD and/or put it in 2 or 1 while making long, steep descents. As we were descending from Tioga Pass (9,941 ft.) through Yosemite via Old Priest Grade (17%) down to 1,000 ft. at the time, compression braking seemed an important bit of knowledge to pass on! :lol: The first time I rode (not drove) down it (Labor Day weekend 1975), someone had missed a turn and was 100+ feet down in the canyon off the side of the road: http://www.uniondemocrat.com/localnews/4523876-151/closures-planned-for-notoriously-steep-old-priest-grade

Guess I was lucky to learn on a stick (and have a dad who drove trucks for a living). As he used to say, "if you break your transmission, you pull over and maybe it costs you a couple thou for a new one. If your brakes overheat and fail, you may not be around to buy replacements." The number of people who ride their brakes all the way down steep hills, with the attendant burning, continues to amaze me. With my last two cars with power disc brakes along with compression braking I've never had a problem stopping at the bottom of Old Priest, but in the '65 Impala (non-power drums all around) even with compression braking and as infrequent brake use as I could manage I'd have my back braced against the seat and putting my entire weight on the brake pedal to try and stop before I drifted past the stop sign at the bottom and out into traffic on 120. I always made it, but it was close a couple of times. I don't know if they still do this, but the family who lived at the bottom used to keep a hose in their driveway for people to use if their brakes were smoking or on fire, along with a guestbook to sign to show they'd used it. But Hwy 108 on the east side of Sonora Pass has an even steeper section, albeit shorter. It's either 25 or 26% (it's signed) with a couple of hairpin turns.
Last edited by GRA on Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

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Valdemar
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Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
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Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:14 pm

GRA wrote:..Guess I was lucky to learn on a stick...


That. To be fair, those who drive on steep roads often most certainly know and use engine braking. Unfortunately they represent only a small fraction of the drivers on the roads.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
59.7AHr, SOH 93%, 118k miles
9kW Solar

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12574
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:03 am

Valdemar wrote:
GRA wrote:..Guess I was lucky to learn on a stick...


That. To be fair, those who drive on steep roads often most certainly know and use engine braking. Unfortunately they represent only a small fraction of the drivers on the roads.


true and realize that the hills and slopes most people see are simply not enough to worry about. Even the Grapevine, I never downshifted. its STEEP and pretty long but not long enough (assuming your car was in good shape) . But Big Bear is a completely different story and the speeds are much lower.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 129 miles, 491 GIDs, 38.1 Ahr available, 100% on everything else :)
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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