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OrientExpress
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Posts: 1202
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:22 am

It's unclear why you think that you would be entitled to extra warranty or compensation for a product that is clearly beyond the warranty period.

Would you expect the same for your refrigerator or television that failed out of the warranty period? Or if you had a seven year old ICE that the transmission failed out of warranty?

The lesson learned here is to read the fine print of a warranty or any business contract, especially with extended warranties that are sold by retailers.

Nissan is absolutely correct that their dealers are independent owners, and that the way that they operate their business is something Nissan generally has no control of.

You say that you didn't pay attention to the terms of the manufacturer's warranty, nor did you take the time to understand the terms of the extended warranty, but you feel that somehow that the manufacturer and the retailer are liable for your actions. As the buyer of a product or service, it is your responsibility to understand the contract and the obligations of both the buyer and the seller.

Just think of this as a learning experience for you to pay better due diligence to what you are doing, especially when it comes to business transactions.

I wish you the best of luck with your next EV purchase or lease, but keep in mind that you will not be exempted from paying attention to the fine print just because you move to another brand or retailer. In fact you may have an even more unfavorable experience if you continue to not do your due diligence in the transaction.

Moving forward, since it appears that you purchased your LEAF rather than lease it, your options are to either replace the car's pack, sell the vehicle on the open market, trade it in for another vehicle, or keep the vehicle and live with its condition.

Nissan is willing to help you finance the replacement at most probably a favorable rate, which is helpful, but if your ability to afford that offer would be strained, that probably means that obtaining another vehicle might also be out of reach.

A used 2013/14/15 LEAF can be had for about $9-12K, and your vehicle is worth about $3K for trade, so that might be a better upgrade than just replacing the battery because at the end of the day you would still have a seven year old car but with a newer battery. A new battery would not change the fact that it will still be only worth $3-5K.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

NissanClient73
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:47 am
Delivery Date: 10 Apr 2018
Leaf Number: 016549

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:16 am

I don’t understand why people defend Nissan. We wanted to support Nissan’s first EV, and took a risk at buying a vehicle without knowing all of the problems the car might have. No one in 2011 knew that the rate of the battery degradation would be that high, which resulted in a class action.

This is not the only issue the car has. It never went 100 miles on full battery charge, as advertised. The rate of battery degradation was also falsely advertised. There is a state and federal laws are in place to protect consumers from false or misleading advertising.

I truly believe that Nissan screwed up their first clients. We would never pay 33K for a vehicle that could only go 40 miles range fully charged after 5 years of use.

I understand that most likely we will loose this case. But Nissan lost us as clients.

Some people wondered why we waited that long? Nissan assured us that we have time till 2019 to replace the battery. We wanted to replace the batter when our son turns 16. Our plan was to give him a car with a new battery and buy Nissan 2019 for us, since we already have a battery charger in the garage.

This won’t happen now.

downeykp
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Delivery Date: 31 May 2011
Leaf Number: 1931
Location: Keaau, HI

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:36 pm

I agree with your post. There are many Nissan "Fanboys" here at MNL. They spend all of their time promoting a vehicle that has had one major flaw, the battery. They promised all kinds of things in regards to the battery that we all thought were gospel. We screwed up thinking that Nissan would "take care of us". At the end of the day "we" screwed up thinking a major company would "do the right thing".

Nissan will not get any new business from many of us.
2011 Black Leaf SL+QC Vin. 1931
Res. 6-14-10 Order 1-25-11
EVSE: Mod'd Ver. 2 Nissan L1
Delivered 5-31-11

7 years 33000mi. 8 bars

39 Suniva panels 10.3kw with Enphase micro inverters my electricity cost $21.87 a month.

User avatar
OrientExpress
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Leaf Number: 2331
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Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:40 pm

That is certainly one way to look at it, but many believe that we are all responsible for our decisions both good and bad. For all of you that are saying farewell to Nissan, I wish you the best of luck.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

SageBrush
Posts: 2602
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:43 pm

NissanClient73 wrote:I don’t understand why people defend Nissan. .

You are new around this forum, so let me introduce myself: I am a harsh critic of the LEAF, and I think Nissan is below contempt. Right around GM level.

But that does not change my assessment of your legal arguments which I think are weak. There is huge divide between a e.g. Toyota corporate decision that would be based on meeting reasonable expectations towards the consumer, and a Nissan corporate decision that follows the letter of the contract down to the last penny if possible.

Nissan published sales promotions that they "expected" great range and durability, but that is hot air. What matters in a court is their contractual obligations which have no range minimum and a piss-poor degradation warranty squeezed out of them by a class action lawsuit. Just consider for a moment that the class action had vastly more power to it than you will ever muster and it came no where near holding Nissan to its weasel-worded promotional advertising.

They sold you a crap car, and do not have responsibility.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

downeykp
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Posts: 600
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:11 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2011
Leaf Number: 1931
Location: Keaau, HI

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:23 pm

Totally agree.

SageBrush wrote:
NissanClient73 wrote:I don’t understand why people defend Nissan. .

You are new around this forum, so let me introduce myself: I am a harsh critic of the LEAF, and I think Nissan is below contempt. Right around GM level.

But that does not change my assessment of your legal arguments which I think are weak. There is huge divide between a e.g. Toyota corporate decision that would be based on meeting reasonable expectations towards the consumer, and a Nissan corporate decision that follows the letter of the contract down to the last penny if possible.

Nissan published sales promotions that they "expected" great range and durability, but that is hot air. What matters in a court is their contractual obligations which have no range minimum and a piss-poor degradation warranty squeezed out of them by a class action lawsuit. Just consider for a moment that the class action had vastly more power to it than you will ever muster and it came no where near holding Nissan to its weasel-worded promotional advertising.

They sold you a crap car, and do not have responsibility.
2011 Black Leaf SL+QC Vin. 1931
Res. 6-14-10 Order 1-25-11
EVSE: Mod'd Ver. 2 Nissan L1
Delivered 5-31-11

7 years 33000mi. 8 bars

39 Suniva panels 10.3kw with Enphase micro inverters my electricity cost $21.87 a month.

Valdemar
Posts: 2479
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:30 pm

NissanClient73 wrote:I don’t understand why people defend Nissan. We wanted to support Nissan’s first EV, and took a risk at buying a vehicle without knowing all of the problems the car might have. No one in 2011 knew that the rate of the battery degradation would be that high, which resulted in a class action.


You probably don't know but OE is our local Nissan schill, if that makes you feel any better. That said, losing 4 bars after 7 years in a warm climate isn't all that unreasonable, if it happened to me (it didn't) I'd certainly accept it as a fairly good outcome of a risky experiment being an early EV adopter.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
54.94AHr, SOH 86%, 130k miles
9kW Solar

SageBrush
Posts: 2602
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:38 pm

Valdemar wrote: That said, losing 4 bars after 7 years in a warm climate isn't all that unreasonable, if it happened to me (it didn't) I'd certainly accept it as a fairly good outcome of a risky experiment being an early EV adopter.

You have a sunny disposition :D

I disagree and would feel shafted by Nissan. Oddly enough though, the rational side of me would consider buying a replacement battery if I thought it would serve me another 6-7 years. I just don't think I could stomach the idea of sending money Nissan's way even though I doubt they are profiting on the sale.

A lot of this is perception of how one is being treated. If Nissan had offered an insurance plan back in 2011 to the tune of $40 a month to keep the LEAF battery at 70% or greater for 12 years, I'll guess that people would have happily agreed and Nissan would not be excrement. The final consumer costs of course would be similar.
Last edited by SageBrush on Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

NissanClient73
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:47 am
Delivery Date: 10 Apr 2018
Leaf Number: 016549

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:39 pm

Valdemar wrote:You probably don't know but OE is our local Nissan schill, if that makes you feel any better. That said, losing 4 bars after 7 years in a warm climate isn't all that unreasonable, if it happened to me (it didn't) I'd certainly accept it as a fairly good outcome of a risky experiment being an early EV adopter.



We lost 4 bars after 5 years and 3 month. We live in Northern California, the climate here is not that warm

Valdemar
Posts: 2479
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Nissan "Out-of-Warranty" support for battery pack degradation

Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:49 pm

NissanClient73 wrote:
Valdemar wrote:You probably don't know but OE is our local Nissan schill, if that makes you feel any better. That said, losing 4 bars after 7 years in a warm climate isn't all that unreasonable, if it happened to me (it didn't) I'd certainly accept it as a fairly good outcome of a risky experiment being an early EV adopter.



We lost 4 bars after 5 years and 3 month. We live in Northern California, the climate here is not that warm


I was referring to another poster, sorry. 5 years and 3 months would leave me unhappy as well.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
54.94AHr, SOH 86%, 130k miles
9kW Solar

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