internalaudit
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:34 am
Delivery Date: 09 Aug 2032

Right to Repair - Are repairs on the Leaf very much like on any Nissan ICE vehicle?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:42 am

I'm a Tesla Model 3 reservation holder but live in Canada so my delivery estimate won't be until late 2018 and so I will have a chance to comparison shop the all new Leaf and other BEVs coming to market.

I just realized that my main concerns with the Model 3 are:
    lack of Right to Repair / open service manuals and parts
    significant cut in warranty on the drive unit and battery
    lack of heated steering wheel
    dynamic cruise control is part of a $5k USD Premium Package

For the current gen Leaf, the lack of active cooling is the main drawback correct? Are there any other major issues current owners have with the Leaf (aside from slight deterioration in driving range)?

The Model 3 looks sporty and fun to drive but the practical side in me thinks I might have to go with a Nissan, Honda, Hyundai/Kia, or even Toyota for our third car, which will most likely be a BEV. We have a Honda and Toyota at the moment and they've been quite trouble-free and we tend to hang on to the cars until repairs become too costly (which hasn't really happened).


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EVDRIVER
Posts: 5873
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:51 am

Re: Right to Repair - Are repairs on the Leaf very much like on any Nissan ICE vehicle?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:51 am

internalaudit wrote:I'm a Tesla Model 3 reservation holder but live in Canada so my delivery estimate won't be until late 2018 and so I will have a chance to comparison shop the all new Leaf and other BEVs coming to market.

I just realized that my main concerns with the Model 3 are:
    lack of Right to Repair / open service manuals and parts
    significant cut in warranty on the drive unit and battery
    lack of heated steering wheel
    dynamic cruise control is part of a $5k USD Premium Package



I think manuals are not difficult to get and parts are available but not the HV components so if you are working on the HV systems you know how to get parts.. Tesla's have so little pack degradation and issues it has been a non issue the the battery and drive warranty is very good. The $5k package has many things and my guess is few cars are sold without it.

internalaudit
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:34 am
Delivery Date: 09 Aug 2032

Re: Right to Repair - Are repairs on the Leaf very much like on any Nissan ICE vehicle?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:59 am

You are right about little degradation for a Model S or X but the 3 will have a limited battery and drive unit warranty. Also, who has actually gotten parts for a Tesla without going through a Service Center? At least with Nissan, the labor rate is probably $70-90 USD/hour and parts are probably going to be considerably less costly.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ecs.94989/

Vehicle: 4 year, 50,000 mile limited warranty
Battery warranty: 8 year, 100,000 mile (120,000 mile with Long Range Battery)

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jlv
Posts: 548
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2014
Leaf Number: 424487
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Right to Repair - Are repairs on the Leaf very much like on any Nissan ICE vehicle?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:00 am

I hadn't heard that the 3 would lack a heated steering wheel (with a "cold weather package"). Having driven with one in my LEAF for the last 3 winters (and having it in the S), I think it's a must-have for any future car I drive. That, if anything, would make me rethink my reservation on the 3. :!:
'13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17)Tesla S 75D (3/17)
Model 3 reservation
(Probably no LEAF2 for me)

internalaudit
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:34 am
Delivery Date: 09 Aug 2032

Re: Right to Repair - Are repairs on the Leaf very much like on any Nissan ICE vehicle?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:05 am

From TMC and the specs, the PUP does not include a heating steering wheel.

Also, to get dynamic cruise control, Tesla wants to charge $5k USD for the EAP.

I'll wait it out and see. I'll be surely test driving the new Leaf and the Niro/Kona as well as the Honda BEV (non-Clarity) before deciding on a Model 3. Will also look at the ESA (extended warranty) to see what components' coverage they will bump up (like drive unit and battery).

SageBrush
Posts: 1412
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Right to Repair - Are repairs on the Leaf very much like on any Nissan ICE vehicle?

Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:50 am

"
For the current gen Leaf, the lack of active cooling is the main drawback correct? Are there any other major issues current owners have with the Leaf (aside from slight deterioration in driving range)?"

Major deterioration in range

---
I don't know if the base Model 3 will have heated seats or heated wheel, but I'll be amazed if the PUP does not. After all, the latter has heated seats and side mirrors.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

Dooglas
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:08 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 314779
Location: Oregon City, OR

Re: Right to Repair - Are repairs on the Leaf very much like on any Nissan ICE vehicle?

Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:45 pm

internalaudit wrote:For the current gen Leaf, the lack of active cooling is the main drawback correct?

Lack of active cooling is a drawback in Southern Arizona. Not so clear why lack of active cooling would be an issue in Canada. It has not been a drawback for me in western Oregon. And there have been two steps up in the chemistry of the battery pack in the gen 1 LEAF. The first occurred at 4/13, and the second occurred at the start of the '15 model year (lizard battery). This is also very relevant to the question of battery degradation.
2013 Leaf SV - lease ended, 2016 Leaf S30

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7138
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Right to Repair - Are repairs on the Leaf very much like on any Nissan ICE vehicle?

Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:19 pm

And there have been two steps up in the chemistry of the battery pack in the gen 1 LEAF. The first occurred at 4/13, and the second occurred at the start of the '15 model year (lizard battery). This is also very relevant to the question of battery degradation.


Unfortunately, there seems to be evidence that there has been a third step - backward - with the 30kwh packs. They seem less heat-resistant than the 2015 24kwh packs.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

Durandal
Posts: 310
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:55 am
Delivery Date: 22 Sep 2016
Leaf Number: 025018
Location: Central Arkansas

Re: Right to Repair - Are repairs on the Leaf very much like on any Nissan ICE vehicle?

Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:21 am

Resale value is likely to be much higher with the Tesla due to the ability to do over the air upgrades to EAP and FSD. Degradation may not be as much of an issue in Canada as you mentioned. Adaptive cruise control will be an extra $5k as part of EAP, but regular cruise control is there, along with automatic emergency braking, and side collision alerts in the base model. You'll be paying an extra $5k to get the SL trim if you want adaptive cruise control on the Leaf, as I doubt it will be on the S or SV trims.

Another consideration, even if you do not need 220 miles range, over 10-15 years of usage, 15% degradation on a 220 mile range battery (187 remaining) is less impacting than a 15% degradation on a 160 mile battery (136mi remaining.) Although given a larger capacity, it will have less charge/discharge cycles making for less degradation. The warranties on both cars batteries are 8 years, 100,000 miles for the base (120,000 miles for long range Model 3.)

But going back to the first topic, any features you have on your Leaf are set in stone, while Enhanced Autopilot and Full Self Driving can be unlocked on the Model 3 whenever you like, (or whenever they work at a level that you're happy with.) Nissan doesn't seem to show any interest in allowing you to upgrade your Leaf in any way, as exampled by their refusal to put 30kWh packs into 24kWh cars when replacing packs. You must stay with the 24kWh. I'm sure the same will be with their ProPilot technology as well.

Just my thoughts, but in any event, from what I've read online, Canadians won't be able to get the Model 3 until late 2018 at the earliest, anyhow. My wait is until June 2018 for Arkansas.
Pulled the trigger on going EV on 10/2016 with a 2012 Leaf, and a Tesla Model 3 reservation expected to receive in June 2018.

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