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jlv
Posts: 565
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2014
Leaf Number: 424487
Location: Massachusetts

Re: About that 40 kWh Battery

Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:08 pm

internalaudit wrote:Did Sage Bush even own a Leaf before? Sounds like he hates the Leaf so much yet finds time to peruse the forum and attack anything Nissan.

Didn't you read his signature?
'13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17)Tesla S 75D (3/17)
Model 3 reservation
(Probably no LEAF2 for me)

lorenfb
Posts: 1405
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: About that 40 kWh Battery

Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:48 pm

internalaudit wrote:Did Sage Bush even own a Leaf before? Sounds like he hates the Leaf so much yet finds time to peruse the forum and attack anything Nissan.


He's really not that antagonistic toward Nissan in general, although maybe a little more than I'm toward Tesla.

RNM
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:11 am
Delivery Date: 05 Mar 2016
Leaf Number: 012707

Re: About that 40 kWh Battery

Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:55 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1_4nXr ... e=youtu.be

see minute 11:59

40 kWh been installed

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Gold Member
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: About that 40 kWh Battery

Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:51 pm

RNM wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1_4nXrEKh4&feature=youtu.be

see minute 11:59

40 kWh been installed


Sure "looks" the same!
[2013 leaf traded for 2016 leaf S30:
build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
1 May 2017 - 7300 miles & 363 GIDs
6 Sep 2017 - 13k miles & 359 GIDs
26 Oct 2017 - 15.5k miles & 344 GIDs
26 Nov 2017 - 17.1k miles & 332 GIDs]

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RegGuheert
Posts: 5614
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: About that 40 kWh Battery

Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:53 am

RNM wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1_4nXrEKh4&feature=youtu.be

see minute 11:59

40 kWh been installed
Cool video. Thanks!

Yes, that battery does look the same to me. I wonder if there is space for more battery under the trunk.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K miles: Apr 14, 2013, 20K miles (55.7Ah): Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah): Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah): Feb 8, 2017, 50K miles (47.2Ah): Dec 7, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

Dooglas
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:08 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 314779
Location: Oregon City, OR

Re: About that 40 kWh Battery

Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:16 pm

My understanding is that the 40 kwh battery is the same physical dimensions as the 30 kwh and 24 kwh. The higher capacity was achieved with higher density of individual cells. The reason you can not "drop in" a higher capacity battery is that the electronic systems are not compatible and Nissan has indicated they have no plans to make the necessary electronic upgrades available. No use ranting about it - it was never in the cards.
2013 Leaf SV - lease ended, 2016 Leaf S30

johnlocke
Posts: 178
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: About that 40 kWh Battery

Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:08 pm

My bet is that 24 KWH, 30 KWH, and the new 40 KWH batteries are all compatible with minor reprogramming of the BMS. The fact that they quietly changed the 2016 S from a 24 KWH to a 30 KWH battery mid season is evidence of that. I doubt that they ever built two different BMS's for the 2016's. The fact is that Nissan wants to sell you a new car, not a new battery. Even if the BMS is physically different, it could be replaced as well as the battery. Nissan has no interest in having you upgrade your car or even letting you maintain it. Service work is the bread and butter for the dealership and electric vehicles just don't need much of it at all. Nissan's Consult III tool is not available to anyone other than the dealers as far as I know and it is the main troubleshooting tool for a Leaf.

At some point someone will buy a salvaged 30 KWh battery to put into an old Leaf either by swapping the cells into the old case or figuring out how to fool the BMS. Wait and see.
2016 SV
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

SageBrush
Posts: 1481
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: About that 40 kWh Battery

Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:31 pm

Dooglas wrote:Nissan has indicated they have no plans to make the necessary electronic upgrades available. No use ranting about it - it was never in the cards.

Nissan also had no plans to offer a battery warranty degradation warranty ... until they were sued.
As for the self-interest angle, if consumers decide not to buy a Nissan *at all* if they cannot buy a battery upgradable EV, the message will get through.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1684
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: About that 40 kWh Battery

Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:10 am

SageBrush wrote:
Dooglas wrote:Nissan has indicated they have no plans to make the necessary electronic upgrades available. No use ranting about it - it was never in the cards.

Nissan also had no plans to offer a battery warranty degradation warranty ... until they were sued.
As for the self-interest angle, if consumers decide not to buy a Nissan *at all* if they cannot buy a battery upgradable EV, the message will get through.


All it would take is for a competitor to offer an alternative. This is how I see it going down. Somebody relatively new to the EV market (say VW or Ford for instance) wants to break in. So they start offering upgraded batteries for old cars, with the promise to do the same in the future with current new cars. Nissan's customers flock to the competitor. Nissan finally decides to offer the same.

Right now, competition is pretty much non-existent for Nissan. They own the affordable medium-range EV market. While there are other products (Focus EV, eGolf, etc), the availability is simply not there. The Bolt is more expensive, and still not available world wide (like Europe or Japan, where Nissan sells a huge percentage of Leafs). The Model III simply is not available yet to anyone not on the "inside".
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

pipestem
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:03 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Sep 2017
Leaf Number: 327753

Re: About that 40 kWh Battery

Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:45 pm

I wonder about the heat. That space was designed for 24kwh. Then they added 25% more. Now they added another 33% more. That means the chemistry got 33% better, or they packed in another 33% more cells in the same space, or some bit of both. That sounds like a lot less room to dissipate heat. I've seen good and bad reports on the 30kwh batteries. I really hope they have this worked out.

Do we have any official references on specifics of battery composition and changes over the years. The only thing I found was that message board post from a Nissan employee saying something like replacement batteries would have the improved composition, but no specifics. What do we really know with citations?
2015 Red Leaf S. Yes the red is important.

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