LeaferSutherland
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:26 am
Delivery Date: 22 Feb 2018

Re: 2018 Leaf - One Trick Pony?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:09 pm

johnlocke wrote:The biggest advantage of the larger battery is not the initial range but the range left when degraded. Plus the fact that the larger battery will see fewer charge/discharge cycles for the same mileage so will likely last longer under the same conditions. With 30% degradation, a 40 KWH battery has a range of around 100 miles while the 60 KWH battery still has a 150 mile range. May or may not make a difference to you but is a concern to a lot of people.


I considered this but then realized the price difference to go to 60kw is about the same as a battery replacement. So as it ages and loses range, I can buy a new battery with the money I saved on initial purchase. Didn’t make sense for me to pay more than the price of a new battery to make my battery last a little longer. It will still be very useful in my family when it’s down to 50 mile range or less. - assuming it doesn’t electronically shut down at that point and lock me out with a message saying “you need a new battery”- I’m kind of curious if something like that eventually happens when range gets down to a certain low level.

johnlocke
Posts: 287
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2018 Leaf - One Trick Pony?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:30 pm

LeaferSutherland wrote:
johnlocke wrote:The biggest advantage of the larger battery is not the initial range but the range left when degraded. Plus the fact that the larger battery will see fewer charge/discharge cycles for the same mileage so will likely last longer under the same conditions. With 30% degradation, a 40 KWH battery has a range of around 100 miles while the 60 KWH battery still has a 150 mile range. May or may not make a difference to you but is a concern to a lot of people.


I considered this but then realized the price difference to go to 60kw is about the same as a battery replacement. So as it ages and loses range, I can buy a new battery with the money I saved on initial purchase. Didn’t make sense for me to pay more than the price of a new battery to make my battery last a little longer. It will still be very useful in my family when it’s down to 50 mile range or less. - assuming it doesn’t electronically shut down at that point and lock me out with a message saying “you need a new battery”- I’m kind of curious if something like that eventually happens when range gets down to a certain low level.

Where can you buy a Leaf with a 60 KWH battery and how do you know how much more it costs? If it did cost $5K extra and if a 40 KWH battery replacement was only $5K, you would have a point. Since there hasn't been a price announced for a 40 KWH battery replacement and no 60 KWH Leafs are even in production yet, I don't know how you could even make that statement. It probably does make sense to lease a 40 KWH Leaf and turn it in at the end of the lease or buy it out if the battery is holding up well.

As far a electronic lockout goes, there are people still driving leafs with 7 or 8 bars gone. Don't think that's going to be a problem.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

LeaferSutherland
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:26 am
Delivery Date: 22 Feb 2018

Re: 2018 Leaf - One Trick Pony?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:07 pm

I wasn’t comparing it to 60kw Leaf price, as you said, that doesn’t exist. When I shop for a car I’m looking at current models and comparing them. I had already waited a long time for the 40kw leaf so wasn’t going to then start waiting for the 60 after that. There will always be something on the horizon that’s tempting I think but at same time, we were just ready after 14 years of same car, just ready for something new. I don’t do leases.

LeaferSutherland
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:26 am
Delivery Date: 22 Feb 2018

Re: 2018 Leaf - One Trick Pony?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:23 pm

Never answered all the way- I was comparing to other cars with 60kw that are available now (well, available to order in case of Tesla 3). Originally was planning on buying a Bolt. When it came out we didn’t like the looks of it much and then found they weren’t doing the employee family discount on that model. Then looked at Tesla but when I saw how high price was once you got options we want, and how long the wait was going to be for me in MI and also how they might run out of federal tax incentive before we could get one... that led us to leaf.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9418
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2018 Leaf - One Trick Pony?

Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:15 pm

Leaf Too: the one you leave the bar with at 4:00am after all the really cute ones are gone.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

johnlocke
Posts: 287
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2018 Leaf - One Trick Pony?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:16 pm

LeaferSutherland wrote:I wasn’t comparing it to 60kw Leaf price, as you said, that doesn’t exist. When I shop for a car I’m looking at current models and comparing them. I had already waited a long time for the 40kw leaf so wasn’t going to then start waiting for the 60 after that. There will always be something on the horizon that’s tempting I think but at same time, we were just ready after 14 years of same car, just ready for something new. I don’t do leases.

I don't do leases either. I put too much mileage on a car to make a lease a good proposition. But in the case of the Leaf, it does make sense for several reasons. First is that the tech is still evolving and what will be available 3 years from now is likely to be much better than today's Leaf. Second is the likelihood of early battery failure, if it happens just turn it back in at the end of the lease. If you buy it outright you're stuck with the car and whatever problems show up. Third is that your residual can likely be negotiated down if you decide to purchase at the end of the lease which would save money in the long run. The fourth reason depends on how much you pay in Federal Income Tax. Since the incentive is a tax credit, you can only use it to the extent that you pay enough tax to offset the credit. Nissan will credit the entire amount off your lease and take the credit against their taxes. It won't matter how much or little you pay in FIT, you still get the full credit. Plus you still have the option to buy out the lease and own the car or walk away and get something else in 3 years.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

iPlug
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: 2018 Leaf - One Trick Pony?

Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:44 pm

johnlocke wrote:I don't do leases either. I put too much mileage on a car to make a lease a good proposition. But in the case of the Leaf, it does make sense for several reasons. First is that the tech is still evolving and what will be available 3 years from now is likely to be much better than today's Leaf. Second is the likelihood of early battery failure, if it happens just turn it back in at the end of the lease. If you buy it outright you're stuck with the car and whatever problems show up. Third is that your residual can likely be negotiated down if you decide to purchase at the end of the lease which would save money in the long run. The fourth reason depends on how much you pay in Federal Income Tax. Since the incentive is a tax credit, you can only use it to the extent that you pay enough tax to offset the credit. Nissan will credit the entire amount off your lease and take the credit against their taxes. It won't matter how much or little you pay in FIT, you still get the full credit. Plus you still have the option to buy out the lease and own the car or walk away and get something else in 3 years.

+1

That mostly sums up why we leased a Leaf for the first time in 2016. Normally, we would buy our vehicles given the favorable economics since we like to keep them ~8-10 years.

Less than 2 years after the start of the Leaf lease, we have a replacement battery on order under warranty. Also, next year when we return the 30kWh Leaf, that capacity will be old hat and next generation plug-ins would then have all new bells and whistles (advanced safety features, driver assist, etc).
2016 Leaf SV (leased) + 2012 Plug-in Prius (own), 11.43 kW Solar PV (16 MWh/yr actual production), Clipper Creek Level-2 7.7 kW charging stations x2, 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source heat pump, 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater

Return to “News & Main LEAF Discussion”