LeftieBiker
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Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:43 pm

IF they take only excellent cells and match them precisely, the resulting pack could be great. People in the two wheeled EV world make such packs all the time, from used laptop cells. It's really a question of how many marginal cells Nissan is willing to pass on using in order to get a high quality refurb pack.
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Evoforce
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Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:47 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:IF they take only excellent cells and match them precisely, the resulting pack could be great. People in the two wheeled EV world make such packs all the time, from used laptop cells. It's really a question of how many marginal cells Nissan is willing to pass on using in order to get a high quality refurb pack.


Yes, I have made many packs myself from used batteries but I would still prefer new.
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
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SageBrush
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Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:50 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:IF they take only excellent cells and match them precisely, the resulting pack could be great. People in the two wheeled EV world make such packs all the time, from used laptop cells. It's really a question of how many marginal cells Nissan is willing to pass on using in order to get a high quality refurb pack.

I doubt you can extrapolate what works in a e-bicycle to a car; and as I have mentioned the refurb experience in the Prius was really poor.
In any case, the warranty will tell the tale.

By all means though -- Be My Guest.
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gbarry42
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Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:05 am

I don't know what you can accomplish with old used cells. My 7 year-old battery has 63% of its original capacity now. The cells are all within 30 mV of each other. That kind of represents the best you can do with used cells. This notion of "replacing the bad cells" never seemed to amount to anything, because that isn't the problem.

It would be a real kick to have a new battery in this car. As the electrochemical Altzheimer's progresses, one learns to cope with the diminished capabilities. Armed with a an always-on Dash Display I can watch the state of charge in real time. And I have done trips I never would have attempted when the car was new. Let's just say I didn't have the experience or courage to push the limits. Now, I look at the gauge, and if it's about 100 GIDs, well, we're good to go. With full third of the battery left, that's 50 GIDs, or what you common folk call "Low Battery Warning". My most recent "all time high" recharge amount was 14 kWh. I don't know what I'd do with 20 kWh. In reality, if I really needed to go distances, $6k for a new battery isn't the end of the world. At $3k for something that was actually close to new capacity, I might not even need a credible excuse to put one in.

Anyway, we're getting a Model 3 next week, maybe I'll like the Tesla better. :lol:
And there goes the first capacity bar! At 24,000 mi on 9/9/2013.
Second bar at 30,500 mi on 2/7/2015.

powersurge
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Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:03 am

I really cant see this refurb thing unless you put new cells into your old battery case that is already matched to your car.

I makes no sense to sort out old cells and go through all the labor to re-install them. Its like taking apart a car engine and replacing the pistons and crankshaft with used junkyard parts.... Yes, it would work, but for how long, and is it worth the labor and effort?

jake14mw
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Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:10 am

SageBrush wrote:...
I doubt you can extrapolate what works in a e-bicycle to a car; and as I have mentioned the refurb experience in the Prius was really poor.
In any case, the warranty will tell the tale.

By all means though -- Be My Guest.


Can you please point us to some information on the Prius refurb batteries? There should be enough data on those to give us an idea what to expect. Has it been documented as to what the refurb process is for most of those? My daughter has had a refurb battery in her Prius for about a year and a half (I think), no problems yet, but the cost of that was about 25% of the cost of a new one, not 50% like this one. Thanks.

lkkms2
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Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:58 am

jake14mw wrote:
SageBrush wrote:...
I doubt you can extrapolate what works in a e-bicycle to a car; and as I have mentioned the refurb experience in the Prius was really poor.
In any case, the warranty will tell the tale.

By all means though -- Be My Guest.


Can you please point us to some information on the Prius refurb batteries? There should be enough data on those to give us an idea what to expect. Has it been documented as to what the refurb process is for most of those? My daughter has had a refurb battery in her Prius for about a year and a half (I think), no problems yet, but the cost of that was about 25% of the cost of a new one, not 50% like this one. Thanks.


When our 2002 Prius gave us the dreaded triangle battery warning we happened to be just beyond the warranty coverage (8 years or 100,000 miles, I forgot which). If we had the dealer replace the battery pack with new, together with labor,if I remember correctly, the price was at the high end of $3000 something, close to $4000. Even with new battery pack, the dealers warranty was only one year after installation.

At the time, our Budget was tight so I looked around and found a company that took gen 2 Prius cells from newer cars that had an accident, or purchased on the internet, cleaned them up, balanced them, then installed the newer cells in the cleaned up “refurbished” pack of our 2002. Cost a little over $2000 with a one year warranty.

At the time we just needed the Prius to last at least one more year, but it is still running 3 1/2 (CORRECTION make that 6 1/2 ) years later! :D
We don’t drive it as much now, only 4000-7000 miles a year, but it worked for our needs.

Note: the garage checked each of the newer cells and if the cell didn’t meet certain quality or capacity, they did not use. I image that the quality or capacity requirement for a pure EV pack vs a hybrid pack might be different.
Last edited by lkkms2 on Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:07 am

powersurge wrote:I really cant see this refurb thing unless you put new cells into your old battery case that is already matched to your car.

I makes no sense to sort out old cells and go through all the labor to re-install them. Its like taking apart a car engine and replacing the pistons and crankshaft with used junkyard parts.... Yes, it would work, but for how long, and is it worth the labor and effort?

In this case it only needs to work long enough to get past whatever warranty they're putting on it.
The LEAF battery is a POS when it's new, what does that make a used one?
LTL
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SageBrush
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Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:11 am

jake14mw wrote:
SageBrush wrote:...
I doubt you can extrapolate what works in a e-bicycle to a car; and as I have mentioned the refurb experience in the Prius was really poor.
In any case, the warranty will tell the tale.

By all means though -- Be My Guest.


Can you please point us to some information on the Prius refurb batteries? There should be enough data on those to give us an idea what to expect. Has it been documented as to what the refurb process is for most of those? My daughter has had a refurb battery in her Prius for about a year and a half (I think), no problems yet, but the cost of that was about 25% of the cost of a new one, not 50% like this one. Thanks.

I cannot think of a source that aggregates the data, but i"ll update this post if one occurs to me.
The PriusChat forums are stuffed with sad refurb stories, but they are scattered. This https://priuschat.com/threads/dorman-battery-experiences.137446/ has a couple informative threads

In GENERAL,
The refurb people would test each module for capacity under load and then make up a pack of similar cells.
Then they would run the pack through a couple of balancing cycles. The protocols got to be quite involved and labor intensive. Imagine an open pack with some 48 odd chargers attached to the modules.

In other cases they would identify the few modules in a pack that were much worse than the rest and replace those with new modules.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles

joeriv
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Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:40 am

IMHO it all depends on the warranty. Normally an OEM refurb carries a “like new” warranty. Spending about $3,000 for a one year warranty does not sound like a good deal to me. However if it carries a 5 or 8 year degradation warranty, then this is a game changer.
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