Page 4 of 5

Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:09 am
by ranss12
I expect (hope) that when they tear down the packs and test the cells, the bad cells get thrown into the recycle bin, the good but degraded cells get installed in energy storage packs (second life), and the refurbished pack gets new cells for use in our LEAFs. that seems to me the only way this whole thing makes economic sense for anyone.

Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:56 pm
by Nubo
powersurge wrote:I really cant see this refurb thing unless you put new cells into your old battery case that is already matched to your car.

I makes no sense to sort out old cells and go through all the labor to re-install them. Its like taking apart a car engine and replacing the pistons and crankshaft with used junkyard parts.... Yes, it would work, but for how long, and is it worth the labor and effort?


The cells are built into modules, and from what I've seen the modules were not made to be disassembled. That means they'd have to manufacture complete modules. By the time you manufacture a full complement of new modules I don't think there is enough cost savings available from using the stamped metal case and assorted cables and cards, to get you down to half-retail considering the labor involved. It seems to me that harvesting the best modules from the salvage flow is the only way to make this work. And why else would they be touting their ability to "innovatively" analyze used batteries?

Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:16 pm
by FairwoodRed
I found the below article on Reuters and pulled out some of the highlights. It sure looks like these will be re bundled cells with about 80% of new capacity. In my situation, it took me 3 years to get to 51Ahr (80%) and almost another 4 years to get to where I am now. So I can pay $2800 for 4 years ($700/yr) or $5000 for 7 years ($714/yr). At about the same cost, having the extra range for a few years is appealing.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nissan-battery/nissan-spins-up-new-plant-to-give-second-life-to-ev-batteries-idUSKBN1H30DD

The batteries will be produced at the new factory in Namie by reassembling high-performing modules removed from batteries whose overall energy capacity has fallen below 80 percent.

Modules with capacities above 80 percent are assigned for use in replacement Leaf batteries; lesser modules are reassembled and sold as batteries for fork lifts, golf carts, and lower-energy applications such as streetlamps.

Makino said it would be difficult for 4R to completely break down and recycle EV batteries on its own

The plant can process 2,250 battery packs a year, and initially plans to refabricate “a few hundred” units annually, Makino said

Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:44 pm
by goldbrick
FairwoodRed wrote:Modules with capacities above 80 percent are assigned for use in replacement Leaf batteries


Hmmm, I wonder if this is what I'll get when my 30kWh pack loses its 4th bar....

Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:32 pm
by armmynissanleaf

Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:44 am
by garsh
On one hand, upgrading an old, degraded 24kWh Leaf to 30kWh for $3k sounds like a pretty good deal.

On the other hand, the 30kWh batteries appear to have much worse degradation issues.

Image

Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:01 am
by RegGuheert
FairwoodRed wrote:I found the below article on Reuters and pulled out some of the highlights. It sure looks like these will be re bundled cells with about 80% of new capacity. In my situation, it took me 3 years to get to 51Ahr (80%) and almost another 4 years to get to where I am now. So I can pay $2800 for 4 years ($700/yr) or $5000 for 7 years ($714/yr). At about the same cost, having the extra range for a few years is appealing.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nissan-battery/nissan-spins-up-new-plant-to-give-second-life-to-ev-batteries-idUSKBN1H30DD
Thanks for the link!

It seems like a reasonable approach. OTOH, with a car that has range as limited as the MY2011-2015 LEAF, the vehicle is quite a bit more useful with new capacity versus 80% capacity. For my wife's commute, that is the difference between heat and no heat on her commute in the wintertime.

Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:14 pm
by hmmwv
I would say if Nissan can guarantee that the refurb packs retain about 95% of new capacity, which equals to about 60AHr, then I wouldn't have any problem buying them at half the cost.

Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:25 pm
by LeftieBiker
hmmwv wrote:I would say if Nissan can guarantee that the refurb packs retain about 95% of new capacity, which equals to about 60AHr, then I wouldn't have any problem buying them at half the cost.


Thanks for the chuckle!

Re: Nissan to Start Sale of LEAF Battery Refurbs in Japan

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:57 pm
by SageBrush
Collecting modules that are above 80% (or is it 85% ?) SOH restricts the recyclers to batteries retrieved from pretty new cars totaled in accidents unless they plan to label old modules as good enough via some short acting sleight of hand like over-charging. And even if the former, they will run into the previously mentioned problems of module balancing which was the bane of Prius recyclers.